On The Eternity of the Sacrifice in Christ’s Church

May 10. Presided over by I. I. Zykov.

Chairman. Honorable and devout assembly! In this session, the question of the mystery of Holy Communion will be discussed. Given the importance of the subject, I most humbly request that the public conduct itself as peacefully as possible and follow the discussion with all humility, silence, and meekness—not only outwardly, but also in the heart. I ask that there be no repetitions of the applause and whistling that occurred yesterday and the day before. The first speech belongs to the esteemed defenders and advocates of the Austrian priesthood. I now declare the session open.

D. S. Varakin. According to the established program, today the precise question to be discussed is this: Will the priesthood and sacrifice established by the Lord remain in Christ’s Church until His second coming? If it is proven that the sacrifice and priesthood will remain until the second coming, then it is clear that no powers of hell, nor the Antichrist, can destroy what Christ established in His Church. Then it will also be clear that yesterday’s proofs by our interlocutor—that the Antichrist is already reigning—do not change this question. Even if we were to agree that the Antichrist is reigning, the priesthood and sacrifice must still exist.

So I proceed to the question at hand. Christ the Savior, before His sufferings, desired to partake of the Passover with His disciples for the last time. This Passover was prepared in one of the upper rooms in Jerusalem, where Christ Himself and the holy apostles were present. Judas was there too. When they

“were reclining at table,” as the Gospel says, “Christ took bread, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: This is My body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of Me” (Luke 22:19–20).

Thus Christ took bread, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to them, saying:

“This is My body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of Me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying: This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you and for many.”

From these few words of Christ the Savior, it is clear that He instituted the mystery of Holy Communion at the Mystical Supper and commanded that it be done in remembrance of His saving Passion. Did Christ command everyone to do what He Himself did at the Mystical Supper? No. He commanded the apostles to do it—that is, to bless and break in the same way He did, as stated on page 358 of the Great Catechism:

“For if in the Old Covenant no one dared to perform the mystery without being consecrated, how much less should it be permitted among us. Therefore, the Lord at the Mystical Supper made His apostles priests.”

Thus, this sacrifice must be performed not by ordinary people, not by laity, but by specially appointed persons, as the Catechism says: “those who bear the priesthood upon themselves.” Was this established by Christ the Savior only temporarily? Perhaps it was instituted only until the coming of the last Antichrist; when the Antichrist comes, will he destroy all this in the Church? No, the answer to this is given by the holy Apostle Paul, whose mouth—according to one of the Paschal matins teachings—is “the mouth of Christ”:

“For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you,” writes the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians (Reading 149).

What he received from the Lord, he passes on to them. What is it?

“That the Lord Jesus, on the night in which He was betrayed, took bread” (1 Cor. 10:16, Matt. 26, Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19). “And when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.’”

Thus I, says the apostle, received this from the Lord and pass it on to you:

“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.’”

All this Christ commanded to be done in remembrance of the Lord’s saving Passion, which He endured for the sins of the whole world. Then the Apostle Paul continues:

“For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.”

Consequently, until Christ comes a second time to earth to judge the living and the dead, this eating and drinking must remain in Christ’s Church. On these words of the Apostle Paul, the great teacher of the universal Church, John Chrysostom—whose mouth, according to the same teaching, is the mouth of Paul and of Christ—testifies in the Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles (p. 871) as follows:

“‘For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.’ Interpretation: Just as Christ said concerning the bread and the cup, ‘Do this in remembrance of Me,’ revealing the reason for giving the mystery, and saying that this, along with other things, is sufficient for us to show reverence—when you consider what your Master suffered for your sake, you will be more philosophical—so Paul here says: ‘As often as you eat, you proclaim the Lord’s death.’ And this is that very Supper. Then, showing that it remains even until the end, he says, ‘till He comes.’”

We read the same in the Great Catechism, on page 384:

“These are the words of the Lord: ‘Take, eat; this is My body, which is broken for you for the remission of sins. And drink of it, all of you; this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for you and for many for the remission of sins. And do this in remembrance of Me.’ That is, offer and bring with thanksgiving, and consecrate with blessing. Concerning this, Paul writes to the Corinthians: ‘The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?’ (Reading 145). Then Matthew in the 108th reading of his Gospel shows the same. Luke also says the same. All these things pertain to the performance of the sacrifice and this mystery. But these words are the most efficacious for that mystery: ‘This is My body, this is My blood.’ Concerning this, Saint John Chrysostom, in the third [book, that is, the second volume], on Judas’s betrayal, says thus: Just as that word which the Lord God spoke, ‘Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth,’ was spoken once and is always fulfilled whenever nature is applied to birth, so this word of the Lord, spoken once, gives power to the sacrifice on all altars even to this day and until His coming.”

Just as God once commanded “be fruitful and multiply,” and this is always fulfilled by His command with no possibility of stopping the power of those words, so the Lord’s words about the sacrifice were spoken once, but the power of the sacrifice will remain on all altars even until His coming. If we were to admit that the Antichrist reigns and has destroyed everything in the Church, then the words of the Apostle Paul “till He comes”—that is, until the second coming—and the words of Saint John Chrysostom would be rendered empty; but even to think this is dreadful. In the Book of Cyril, on the reverse of page 78, it is written as follows:

“And this is the sacrifice which the Christian Church, chosen from the nations, offers to the Lord God throughout the whole world, and until the end of the age will offer the body and blood of the Lord God and our Savior Jesus Christ, in memory of His death. And this prophecy is truly for assurance, since it is strong and invincible.”

These are the words of Christ at the Mystical Supper. This, it says, is sufficient for our assurance, because it is strong and invincible. On the same page it is written that the sacrifice and the priesthood have equal power, equal significance, and equal promise. This is evident from the words in the Book of Cyril, on the same page:

“The priesthood and the sacrifice are one and the same; one cannot exist without the other.”

They are together, inseparable, and one cannot be without the other. For example, could someone decide to say that there is priesthood but no sacrifice, or that there is sacrifice but no priesthood? One cannot say this in either case; rather, priesthood and sacrifice are together. The same is testified in the Explanatory Apostle, on the reverse of page 545:

“Therefore, if there was a daily sacrifice there [in the Old Testament], then in the new there is one far better and more honorable. For the holy Paul says: when the priesthood of the old law is changed, so is the law. And if the priesthood, then also the sacrifice. For these two go together; one cannot exist without the other.”

The same regarding the eternity of the sacrifice is said in the same Explanatory Apostle, on the reverse of page 544:

“But what the Lord Himself did and commanded His disciples and those after them to do until His coming. For if this sign of Melchizedek the priest after the Lord’s Supper had not been fulfilled, then it would have no place anywhere else. For the Prophet says God to the Jews: ‘I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord of hosts, and I will not accept an offering from your hand. For from the rising of the sun to its setting My name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering. For My name is great among the nations, says the Lord.’ That is, He no longer desires sacrifice from the hands of the Jews, and He names another sacrifice dear to Himself, written in three ways: it shall be among the nations, and in every place, and a pure sacrifice. And this is that sacrifice which the Christian Church, chosen from the nations, offers to the Lord God throughout the whole world. And until the end of the age it will offer the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ in remembrance of His death. And this prophecy is sufficient for assurance, since it is firm and unconquerable.”

From these clear testimonies, I believe it is understandable to everyone that Christ established priesthood and sacrifice in His Church until His second coming. This is also stated in the Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles, and that it remains until the end is proven by the words: “till He comes,” as said by the Apostle Paul.

In this discussion, we will not examine the question of priesthood: which priesthood is good, which priesthood might be good—we will not debate this, because the question is not about that. The main question is: Will priesthood and sacrifice remain in Christ’s Church until Christ’s second coming? If it pleases our interlocutors to consider our priesthood unlawful, our sacrifice unlawful, we are not speaking about that in this discussion, but about something else—about the Lord’s sacrifice established in His Church. If such a sacrifice is acceptable among the Old Believer Pomortsy, then on the basis of what I have read, they must acknowledge that it will exist until the second coming, and then the question will be: where is this true sacrifice? But since they deny this and say that at present there is no such sacrifice, they are directly contradicting the teaching of the Apostle Paul, Saint John Chrysostom, and other holy fathers and teachers of the Church—they go against all the teachers of the Church. I say this only if they claim that it cannot be obtained anywhere now, or if they point out that they too have priesthood and sacrifice in the form Christ established at the Mystical Supper—then the question will depend on where the true sacrifice is and where it is not. But I know the view of our interlocutor: he considers the Antichrist to be the heretics. We cannot agree with this, because even in the ancient Church and before Patriarch Nikon there were many heretics, but they were not recognized as the final Antichrist, nor was it considered at that time that priesthood and sacrifice had been destroyed in Christ’s Church. I think that the testimonies I have read are sufficient to pose the question, and I consider it unnecessary to repeat or explain them, because they are so clear that explaining them would only obscure them.

Concluding my speech for the first time, I turn to my interlocutor Lev Feoktistovich with the following question: Show me in Holy Scripture where it is written that priesthood and sacrifice in Christ’s Church will not remain until the second coming. I have pointed out that priesthood and sacrifice will remain until the end of the world, until the second coming. But where is it written that they will not remain? This will depend on your proofs. So please, Lev Feoktistovich, be so kind as to read for us and all the respected listeners a place in Holy Scripture where it is said that the priesthood and sacrifice established by the Lord in His Church will not remain until the second coming. This is my question. If you resolve this in your first speech, then it will not need to be repeated and will be considered exhausted by your arguments. But if in your first speech you do not give a substantive answer, I will remind you that I will repeat this question in each subsequent speech. We need clear testimonies, just as clear as those I have presented in proof that the sacrifice and priesthood remain until the second coming—we need equally clear proofs from your side that the sacrifice and priesthood will not remain.

Concluding my speech, I address my interlocutor with the following reminder, simply as a brother, not in offense or reproach: one should not evade the question; that is not how to conduct a discussion. Instead, point directly to where it is written that priesthood and sacrifice will not remain until the second coming.

And we should not touch upon the question of the Belokrinitsa hierarchy, as you call it. Just in case there is any attempt on your part to address this question, I invite you once again to discuss it specifically. If one discussion on the hierarchy is not enough for you, I invite you to two discussions.

Please, Lev Feoktistovich, answer the posed question: where is it written that the priesthood and sacrifice established by the Lord in Christ’s Church will not remain until the second coming?

L. F. Pichugin. Dear and highly respected assembly! The mystery of Communion was undoubtedly given by Christ the Savior to the holy apostles in the upper room on Zion, but I must make an important qualification on this matter. The Holy Church received from Christ an inheritance: priesthood and the grace-filled mysteries dependent on priesthood. Everything that took place in the upper room on Zion was done by the Master Christ Himself; and everything that was received by the holy apostles—His disciples and His divine preachers—and everything that the divine preacher-apostles passed on to their successors in faith, all this, in truth, was given only to Orthodox Christians. But from the time when this sacred mystery was entrusted by Christ the Savior, Christians divided into various sects and heretical societies. In heretical societies there could be no grace of Christ, and therefore there was none, nor is there among them the sacred mystery of the Eucharist, nor the other mysteries. Christ’s Church followed the path appointed by the Master Christ and the proclamation of the holy prophets and apostles. From the proclamation of the holy apostles, it is evident that heretics undermined the authority of the Church. Everything that my interlocutor read from Holy Scripture I accept unconditionally, but I ask him to pay special attention to the fact that this was said in its time and for the times of continuing piety. At the same time, we must not forget in what period of time we live, for the almighty Master God indicated to us through the prophet Daniel four periods of kingdoms in the world, which, according to the indication of Scripture, we have actually lived through. Now we are living through a period of time whose end is hidden solely in the counsel of God; and this end is the second coming of Christ to earth. Since in the last period of time the Roman kingdom was divided into 10 parts, after the division of the Roman kingdom into 10 parts, according to the prediction of the prophets, only the day of God’s Judgment remains. About this period of time, the divine prophets, holy apostles, and apostolic men said that in this time false prophets and false christs will nest and deceive many. Christ the Savior said:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves” (Gospel of Matthew, Reading 22).

It is in such an unfortunate period of time that we live. Having said this preliminarily for your information, dear listeners, I proceed to analyze the testimonies that my interlocutor has put forward against me as accusations. First of all, I must answer: “Is the priesthood and sacrifice eternal?” I pay special attention to this question. I answer: Christ the Savior said about the Church in the Gospel of Matthew, Reading 67:

“I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

About the Church Christ said: “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it,” but about priesthood He did not make such a promise: “I will build My priesthood, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it”—such words are nowhere said in the holy Gospel. On the contrary, about priesthood Christ the Savior made a qualification in the following words. Christ said about priesthood in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 5, Reading 10, at the end:

“You are the salt of the earth.” “But if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned?”

That is, you are the salt of the earth. Just as salt seasons the body and prevents it from decomposing, so the priesthood in the person of the apostles must season with the living word of divine teaching the body of the Church. The Church is the assembly of the faithful people in one spirit according to faith and in united dogmas, constituting one body, and the sacred persons are members of the Church. Christ says to them: “You are the light of the world and the salt of the earth,” but “if the salt loses its flavor.” You are the salt of the earth, you season with the life-giving word of your grace-filled teaching the body of the Church, but if you lose flavor—that is, deviate into teaching alien to grace or fall away from what I have entrusted to you—then you are no longer priests, but “flavorless, stinking salt, fit for nothing.” What should the Church—that is, the body—do with this salt? Throw it out. But how will the body of the Church remain without salt—that is, without priesthood? In answer to this question, I will read the words of Christ the Savior, Reading 42 in the Gospel of Mark:

“For everyone will be seasoned with fire,”

that is, every believing Christian, when the priesthood loses its flavor, will be seasoned—that is, governed—by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the Holy Spirit is here called fire. But “salt is good,” that is, priesthood.

“But if the salt loses its flavor, how will it be seasoned?”

Here stands a question mark. Christ Himself answered:

“It is thrown out and trampled underfoot by men” (Matthew, Reading 10).

Not only must such salt be thrown out of the Church, but even “trampled underfoot by men”—that is, despised by all. The Evangelist Mark, from the words of Jesus Christ, says:

“And whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble—it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.”

Thus, for this stumbling block it is better to hang a stone around the neck and throw oneself into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble in faith. And how to cause stumbling? To destroy with false teaching in faith. Further comes the parable:

“If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—where ‘Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’”

Dear listeners, do not think that this speaks of the right and left hand. No! You will hear that hand here mysteriously means a sacred person. It is better for you, says Christ, to go without a hand into the kingdom of God—that is, without a flavorless priest—than with a sacred person who causes you to stumble, to go into the fiery hell.

“And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off.”

The foot means church servants:

“It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—where ‘Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’”

Further comes speech about the eye.

“And if your eye causes you to stumble,”

in this case do not go to a doctor or a knowledgeable person to remove this bad eye. But you yourself, the body of the Church, if you see that a bishop causes you to stumble, cast him aside. The eye means bishop and priest, the right hand—deacon, the foot—church servants. Consequently, all three ranks can lose flavor; and the question is, how will the sacred body of the Church live without members? How will it be seasoned?

I, as one of the mortals, am not able to answer this, but I see the resolution of the Master Christ Himself to this question:

“For everyone will be seasoned with fire.”

So do not think, Christian, that you cannot be saved without a priest and bishop, for you will be seasoned with fire.

What does this fire mean? In the first discussion I showed that this fire is the Holy Spirit; consequently, according to the words of Jesus Christ, in need one can be seasoned by the grace of the Holy Spirit:

“But if the salt loses its flavor, how will it be seasoned?”

Answer:

“Have salt in yourselves.”

Have the teaching of the holy Gospel in yourselves; have the teaching of the holy apostles in yourselves; finally, have the teaching of all the divine men of the Church in yourselves, and have peace among yourselves (Mark 9). And so, dear listeners, I have said briefly and clearly regarding priesthood that it will lose flavor and not remain until the end, but to the body—that is, the Church—the Savior promised the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

Now I will present the interpretation of what hand, foot, and eye mean. The Book of Nikon of the Black Mountain, Word 7, page 48, interpretation of Athanasius of Alexandria: “Those walking the undeceived and life-giving path should cast out the eye—not the sensory one, but the noetic one. That is, if a bishop or presbyter, who are the eyes of the church, live improperly and cause people to stumble, it is fitting to cast them out; it is better to gather in a house of prayer without them than to be cast with them, as with Annas and Caiaphas, into the fiery hell. Likewise the hand, which is the deacon, if he does something unworthy, let him be removed from the altar. The foot, which is the servant, if he runs badly into falsehood, let him also be made alien to service, as a wicked and senseless man, so that the Church gathered may be preserved without stumbling.” Athanasius, archbishop of Alexandria, tells all truly believing Christians to beware of the eye: the bishop and priest. If they are Orthodox, they are bright eyes and bear the image of Christ Himself; but if they are heretics, by that damage they are already servants of hell. It is better for you, he says, to gather in a house of prayer without them—that is, better for simple, believing people to gather in a house of prayer without heretical bishops and priests than with them. What benefit was there to the Jews who remained with the Christ-killing high priests Annas and Caiaphas? So there will be no benefit to those who are governed by false priesthood. It is better to be in poverty according to faith than to perish from heretics. The apostles were simple poor fishermen; they themselves said of themselves:

“We are poor, yet making many rich.”

With Christ, these humble fishermen entered the dwelling that the Heavenly Father promised for all believers, while the unbelievers with the high priests went to the depths of hell. And now let those who wish to be saved walk the narrow evangelical path, not the broad splendid road that blinds the world; for a person attempting faith walks not the narrow evangelical path but the broad and destructive one, looking at appearances.

I openly say and answer the question that the priesthood at the present time has completely lost its flavor. And my most honorable interlocutor took priesthood from this flavorless, rotten root and supposes that it can bring him life-giving fruits—that is, the mystery of Communion. The Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Romans, Reading 106, writes:

“If the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.”

But the firstfruit of your root is not holy, but heretical. You yourselves called this root “the harlot Babylon; the dwelling place of demons and a hold of every unclean spirit” and, finally, “the heretical church”; and a heretical root is the root of Sodom and Gomorrah. From Sodom and Gomorrah you took a dry vine, lifeless—that is, graceless—and therefore this dry vine does not bring you the fruits of Communion. Only the living grapevine brings life-giving fruits. Christ the Savior in the Gospel of John, Reading 50, said:

“Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. Whoever does not abide in Me is thrown away. Like a branch, it withers, and they gather it and throw it into the fire, and it burns.”

The branches are the apostles and their successors—the bishops, builders of Christ’s mysteries. Christ said to them:

“Without Me you can do nothing.”

Then how can a Sodomite branch without Christ produce the fruits of Christ’s mysteries? A cut-off vine no longer bears fruit; it withers, according to the word of God. They gather it, throw it into the fire, and burn it.

Then, you read Christ’s words spoken regarding the mystery of Communion at the Mystical Supper. With all my soul I confess that this is true; as a believing person, I accept that it was all unconditionally so, but to my regret, I must say, according to Scripture, that this highest mystery is now emptied, corrupted by heretics. As for the words of the Apostle Paul in the epistle to the Corinthians, Reading 149, which my interlocutor read without discernment, I will read them again to restore the truth. The Apostle says:

“For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.’ In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.’ For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.”

I will read the words of Christ the Savior spoken in the upper room on Zion to His disciples:

“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, gave it to them and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body.’ Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.”

The Apostle adds:

“For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body” (Reading 149).

The meaning of these words is this: If anyone receives the Body and Blood of the Lord unworthily, he pronounces judgment on himself, because he partakes unworthily. Consequently, even in the sacred mystery of Communion there are distinctions: not everyone can always partake unconditionally, but only, according to the proclamation of the Divine Church, “the holy things to the holy.” A Christian must prepare for receiving this sacred mystery and necessarily from the hand of an Orthodox builder. Thus the Apostle Paul said about this:

“You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.”

Already the Apostle Paul mentions two cups: one the Lord’s, the other demonic. At the present time the Lord’s cup is not visible, and to partake of the demonic cup is terrifying. And the demonic cup is the pretended communion arranged by false priests, like demons disguised as angels of light. For at the present time, in the period of the misfortune that has befallen us since 1666, there is no servant of this mystery in the true spirit, and all that exist are either artificial or derived from heretics.

Here I must tell you, beloved assembly, that it is precisely these mysteries—artificial and lifeless, heretical—that we shun. But we believe that, according to our warmest desire and faith, in these last Antichrist times, for the need of salvation, the Lord will grant us the mystery of “the Holy of Holies” if we walk the Lord’s path. Finally, my interlocutor posed the question: “Point out where it is written that priesthood and sacrifice will not remain until the end of the age?” I will answer this question with the words of Christ the Savior, that

“On the holy place: the abomination of desolation will stand.”

The priesthood, the builders of this mystery, will lose flavor, and once the builders have lost flavor, consequently there is no longer the true mystery.

To prove that instead of true Communion such a high mystery will have the abomination of desolation, I must take the holy Gospel. Christ the Savior says in the Evangelist Matthew, Reading 99:

“When you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

First testimony. Then the second, from Mark, Reading 60:

“But when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

Here, brethren, Christ the Savior said that there will be a time when, instead of the true sacrifice, the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place. Before finishing reading the words of the Gospel, I must explain what the holy place is that Christ speaks of. About this testifies the Book of Cyril, page 54:

“The holy place understand as Jerusalem chosen throughout the whole world, as Matthew writes, the holy city. And Cyril of Jerusalem says the supreme Apostolic Church. Understand also that in every place where there are Christian churches, on the altars the throne is the holy place, on which the priests offer sacrifice to God, consecrate bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.”

Thus, in the supreme Apostolic Church the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place—not only simply in the Church, but on the very altars the abomination of desolation will finally stand. If according to the word of Christ the Savior the abomination of desolation will stand on the altars even in the initial Jerusalem church and in all churches, then it is precisely this abomination of desolation that we now shun, and along with it we shun the builders of this improper mystery. I read the words of Christ the Savior:

“And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.”

When the last week of Daniel comes—and this, according to Scripture, is our time—in that time, it is said, when you see the abomination of desolation, they will say to you: here is an Orthodox bishop, and others will say: here is a more Orthodox bishop, others will say that a bishop is hiding in the desert (the bishop signifies the person of Christ), then

“Do not be deceived, for many will come in My name, even to deceive the elect.”

So it is said in the interpretation. But do not believe, do not enter into union with them; if you believe and enter into union with them, you will perish—said our Master Christ. The word false christ in a figurative sense means false anointed, for the true anointed is Jesus Christ, and the false anointed is a heretical bishop, just as the Antichrist is a false christ. Such a false anointed will give, supposedly in the name of Christ, such false christs as himself, and false prophets, and will show signs and wonders, and many in delusion will recognize him as Christ, for he will create an appearance similar to Christ’s Church, priesthood similar to Christ’s priesthood, and similar to everything that the Apostolic Church instituted. In this temptation, if one does not sober up, even the most elect person cannot discern; not to mention a person who cares little about this. But take heed—you poor, humble, trampled-upon apostles—and not the proud Jewish high priests, take heed. (Testimony from the Evangelist Matthew). Christ the Savior here by parable indicates: “Who stands in faith on a false foundation and who on a firm one,” Gospel of Matthew, Reading 24.

“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.”

By this Christ means a person’s firm faith in Christ, for the rock is Christ. If someone is established in truly Christ-like faith, no temptations in faith will shake him, for Christ says: “Whoever hears these sayings of Mine—sayings of teaching, counsel, and prohibition—and does them,” “I will liken him to a wise man”—that is, a person able to distinguish truth from deception and harmful from useful. And this high understanding, with God’s help, is precisely applied now. Christ seems to say: “You see false christs, false prophets, deceiving many in My name, and the abomination of desolation standing in the churches, and temptations attacking you from these false priests—take heed, stand firm in faith, do not fear, I am with you; if people destroy you in faith and shake your mind like a storm, hold fast, for the root of your faith is in Me. If you strengthen yourself thus in faith, neither the rain of afflictions nor the rivers of heretical teachings will undermine the house of your faith. For it is not people who will exalt you, not people who will set you on the rock—that is, false christs—but I will help you in your trouble. I will liken you to a wise man, and this wisdom the whole world will not be able to resist, for he built his house on the rock.” A wise person builds his house in faith on the rock, and no storms of afflictions or whirlwinds of lies will scatter it; he will never be shaken, because he stands on the firm rock of confession. But if someone bases his hope in faith on sand—that is, on human invention—then his spiritual house will fall; for it is founded not on Christ but on false teaching, and this person is no longer wise but foolish, as Christ says:

“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.”

My brethren in faith, though they do not accept the modern priesthood, are founded on the rock of sound faith and are likened in faith in Christ to a wise man. But the faith of my honorable interlocutors is founded on sand, for by their own invention they established a priesthood that began only in 1846. What is the abomination of desolation? The abomination of desolation is false teaching, false mystery of the Eucharist, and all Antichrist activity. And this is now—witness to this is blessed Jerome, part 16, p. 250: “Under the abomination of desolation can be understood any perverted teaching. When we see it standing in the holy place—that is, in the Church—and showing itself as God, we must flee from Judea to the mountains—that is, leaving the killing letter and Jewish corruption, draw near to the eternal mountains in which God wonderfully shines.”

When we see false teaching dominating in the Church, we do not seek salvation in the letter but on the mountains—that is, in the high prophetic writings.

Thus, I have proven that the priesthood has lost its flavor. Christ the Savior said that the sacrifice will also be subject to the abomination of desolation. Now let my interlocutor answer this.

D. S. Varakin. You have heard, most respected listeners, the first speech of our interlocutor and have probably become convinced that Mr. Pichugin not only did not answer the question posed to him but did not even approach an answer to the question. I asked, on the basis of the whole series of testimonies I read, to point out: where is it written in Holy Scripture that priesthood and sacrifice will not remain until the second coming? For now the question remains with him. Then Mr. Pichugin throughout his speech tried again to attack our priesthood. It seems to me there can be no clearer sign of the weakness of our interlocutors’ convictions. When a person speaks off-topic, it means he has nothing to say. If he had proofs from Holy Scripture for his conviction, he would have read a whole mountain of them, but since he read not one, it means there are none, and if there are none, it means their conviction, as he himself read, is founded like a house on sand. This is not new. After all, the two previous discussions (the third was specifically on the question of priesthood) were also directed against our priesthood, which did not relate to the question. So my interlocutor tries to proceed in this discussion as well. I challenged him: if you wish to discuss our priesthood further, I ask you, Lev Feoktistovich, to appoint—not just one—two special discussions, and I am at your service; but he said not a word to me whether he agrees or not to discuss priesthood. After all, we had conditions even before the discussions with you: when speaking about one side, not to mention the other, and you said: “yes, yes.” I wanted you to sign the condition, you said: “why, don’t you believe me if I say it.” It turns out you cannot be trusted. I should have asked you to sign the condition so that everything would be documented and everyone convinced that you are going against the promise you gave, which you signed, and evading the question. But God be your judge. I will not touch upon the question of our priesthood; I said I will go the straight path: will priesthood and sacrifice remain until the second coming, and I will prove that they will remain, but you did not read that they will not. Appoint further discussions about our priesthood; I agree to discuss with you as much as you like, but not now.

He also began with the Gospel, that in Christ the Savior’s Gospel it is said: “You are the salt of the earth” and “The abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place.” No one is forcing you to accept the heretical; point out what you have if you have Christ’s Church; and do not point out that there and there is heretical. But since it is said that the sacrifice will remain until the second coming, it means you must have it, but you do not. Therefore your Church is not Christ’s. Regarding the abomination of desolation, the honorable interlocutor read from the Book of Cyril:

“The abomination of desolation is the corpse of a dead man, which is a body of desolation without soul and without blood, dead and emptied, doing nothing. And when Vespasian and Titus the Roman emperors came, they captured Jerusalem, laid it waste, and set up their idol in the altar in the holy place. The Jews called the idol a human corpse, abomination, as they were defiled by hypocrisy, envy, and evil deeds” (Page 31 reverse).

This is the place my interlocutor read. Where is this abomination of desolation? It means where there is no true sacrifice, where there is no true piety. I agree with this. But on page 32 of the same book we see this:

“Note the abomination of desolation, for heretics have no altars, and when they remain in Christian churches, they destroy and cast out from the altar the physiasthirion—that is, the altar.”

But you do not have this. Here is where the abomination of desolation is. Note what abomination means. It is that heretics have no sacrifice. But it is known that in some Pomortsy prayer houses there are altars. But are there thrones and altars? No. There is neither throne nor altar. Instead of throne and altar, they have arranged a sideboard. This, I think, is known even to those Old Believer Pomortsy brethren present here. Did not the Antichrist drag it there? No, they arranged it themselves. The Antichrist has nothing to do with it. When rebuilding the temple, they drew up a plan and made a place for the altar, and said: here, instead of the altar, put a sideboard.

“And they do not slaughter the living bread sacrifice. And the bread of the innocent Lamb, the most pure body, and the wine of the precious blood of Christ, they do not offer in sacrifice” (Cyril, p. 32).

This, it says, heretics themselves stripped from their altars. For example, take a Pomortsy temple. There is no Antichrist there. They themselves arrange everything without the Antichrist and decided that an altar is not needed. And instead of the altar here we will drink tea, snack, as in inns, and blame everything on the Antichrist: supposedly the Antichrist destroyed priesthood and sacrifice before the second coming. What else happens in this abomination of desolation?

“Only in the altar in the place of sanctification they set up an abomination of desolation like a corpse” (Ibid., p. 32).

This is what all heretics do who have no sacrifice. This is what happens in their altars. This was not done by the Antichrist or his forerunner, but by those who call themselves pious Old Believer Pomortsy; so they vainly shift all the blame onto the Antichrist.

To make this even clearer to you, respected assembly, I will read what the Apostle Paul and Saint John Chrysostom—whose mouths are the mouths of Christ—say:

“Just as Christ said about the bread and the cup, ‘Do this in remembrance of Me,’ revealing to us the reason for giving the mystery, and saying that this, along with others, is sufficient for us to show reverence (for when you consider what your Master suffered for your sake, you will be more philosophical), so Paul here says: ‘As often as you eat, you proclaim the Lord’s death,’ and this is that Supper. Then showing that it remains even until the end, he says, ‘till He comes’” (Homilies on the Acts, p. 871).

Here, not until some time, not until 1666, not until 1846. No. Till Christ comes a second time. And Christ has not yet come a second time, but for 250 years you have had nothing.

We were read from the book of Nikon of the Black Mountain, where it is said that pastors are called “evil eye.” Yes, I agree with this. One must beware of an evil bishop, priest, or deacon preaching false teaching. But if they repent, they should be accepted, because we see that in ancient times pastors deviated into error, but they repented and again became Orthodox pastors, and with them were all Orthodox Christians. I fully agree with this. But having read from the book of Nikon of the Black Mountain about the “evil eye,” you did not read in it the most important thing that precisely concerns your society. You should have finished reading it; but since you did not, I will do it myself. Here is what is said in Word 53, page 445 reverse:

“‘This is My body,’ He said. This word presents what is set before us, just as that voice saying ‘increase and fill the earth’… so this voice, spoken once, on every table in the churches from then until this day, and until His coming, makes the sacrifice perfect.”

This he did not read, but it is in the same book. To what my respected interlocutor said, I directly declare that he spoke off-topic, that he said not a word on the question; I do not even find anything to examine in his speech. Heretics should not be accepted—I agree with this; heretical pastors, he says, should not be accepted—I agree with this too. But I do not agree that when a pastor repents, he should not be accepted either; when he repents, he will be an Orthodox pastor just as before. And all this does not change our question. The question remains with him. Point out where it is written that sacrifice and priesthood will not remain until the second coming?

We should dwell a little on the expression quoted by my interlocutor: “he who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks judgment to himself.” Is it possible that for 250 years among them in all Russia and the universe not one worthy person was found? According to my interlocutor’s conclusion, this is true. It turns out that for 250 years not one worthy person was found among them to receive the body and blood of Christ. An extremely sad and lamentable situation.

About the fact that the sacrifice will remain until the second coming, testifies in another place the great teacher of the Church Saint John Chrysostom (part 7, p. 820): “As the old covenant had rams and bulls, so the new has the blood of the Lord. By this Christ shows that He will suffer death; therefore He mentions the covenant and recalls the first, since that covenant was also renewed with blood. Further, He again speaks of the reason for His death: which is shed for many for the remission of sins, and adds: do this in remembrance of Me. Do you see how Christ turns them away from Jewish customs? As you celebrated the Passover in remembrance of the miracles in Egypt, so celebrate this mystery in My remembrance. The blood of the old covenant was shed for the salvation of the firstborn, but this blood is shed for the remission of the sins of the whole world: this is My blood, He says, shed for the remission of sins. He said this also to show that the suffering and the cross are a mystery, and by this again consoles the disciples. And as Moses said: this shall be an eternal memorial for you (Ex. III, 15), so Christ says: in My remembrance, until that time when I come.”

Until what time? Until the coming of the Antichrist, perhaps? No, “until that time when I come.” And the Antichrist will come before Christ’s coming, and according to you he has already come, but Christ is not yet here. “Until that time when I come.” Are these words of Christ the Savior, transmitted through the mouth of John Chrysostom, false? Are they powerless? Is the Antichrist, such as you preach—even if he were the most terrible—stronger than Christ? The same Saint Chrysostom in another book, in Homilies on Various Occasions (vol. 2, p. 91), writes the following: “But it is already time to approach this fearful table. Let us all approach with due philosophy and attention, and let no one be a Judas, let nothing be evil, let no one hide poison in himself, bearing one thing on the lips and another in the mind. Christ is present; He who instituted that table also now arranges this one. For it is not a man who transforms what is set before us into the body and blood of Christ, but Christ Himself crucified for us. The priest stands bearing His image and pronounces the words, but the power and grace are God’s. ‘This is My body,’ He said. These words transform what is set before us, and just as that saying: ‘Increase and multiply and fill the earth’ (Gen. 1:28), spoken once, but throughout all time actually gives our nature the power of childbearing; so that saying, spoken once, from that time until now and until His coming, makes the perfect sacrifice on every table in the Churches.”

Can one in any way establish that the human race cease to multiply? Can this be done? Even the priestless celibates cannot do this, not to mention other priestless who accept marriages. This cannot be done because it is fulfilled by God’s command; likewise the sacrifice about which Christ spoke will remain until He comes—“until His second coming.” In the Book on Faith, on page 51, the following is written about those who do not have such a great gift—holy Communion:

“Drink of it, all of you, and confirming that no one should despise His command, He teaches with these words: Amen, amen I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.”

Here, those who do not receive the Communion of the body and blood of Christ, because they say there is none now, truly these people are like dead corpses:

“Terrible is the answer of Christ’s words, for His words are true; with this He concludes: heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.”

This is not said in vain. No.

“Who will not be horrified by the aforementioned prohibition and not obey the voice of the Lord, except the one who wishes to destroy eternal life?”

Who does not partake? Who? Except “the one who wishes to destroy his life.” This is where you are leading your people. Only the one who does not spare his life and wants to destroy it will not obey this voice.

Also on the words of the Apostle Paul writes the blessed Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrrhus (part 7, p. 248): “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.” Why only until the second coming, why not further? The blessed Theodoret answers: “For after His coming there will no longer be need for that which signifies the body.” And why? Answer: “because the Body itself will appear. Therefore the apostle said, till He comes.” Why will we not need at the second coming what we now perform—the offering of the body and blood of Christ under the forms of bread and wine? Why? Because Christ Himself will come—the Body itself will appear—then its likeness will not be needed. This is why it is indicated to exist until Christ’s second coming.

About this, that the sacrifice will remain until Christ’s second coming, I will also read a testimony from the Explanatory Apostle (page 536 reverse):

“For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes. Interpretation of Chrysostom: For when you understand that for your sake your Lord endured, you will be wise. This is what it means when it says: as often as you eat, you proclaim the Lord’s death. And that it will remain even until His second coming, it indicates: till He comes.”

I do not know what further proofs from Holy Scripture are needed to show that sacrifice and priesthood will remain until the second coming. This promise is strong and invincible, and just as it is impossible to stop the continuation of the human race, so it is impossible to stop the offering of this sacrifice. I will repeat the passage I read from the Book of Cyril, because my interlocutor did not even approach the proofs I read; he only spoke of “heretical communion,” “heretical priesthood”… No one is forcing you to accept the heretical. If you say it is heretical with us, then show where it is not heretical with you, because it is said: sacrifice and priesthood will remain until the end of the age, and if you do not have it, it means you do not have Christ’s Church. It means Christ did not say this about you. The Book of Cyril (page 78 reverse) says:

How are we to recall His divine redemption of the human race from sin? Only by partaking of the body and blood under the forms of bread and wine, as it was at the Mystical Supper. In those societies where this is not performed, they have forgotten that Christ suffered; moreover, they do not want to remember. Here is the sorrow, here is the famine of the soul!

I consider the passages cited sufficient to prove the continuance of priesthood and sacrifice until Christ’s second coming. Concluding my speech, I again remind my honorable interlocutor: there is no need to speak of heretics—this or that—it does not pertain to the question. I ask only one thing from you, I ask little from you. You give much more, but not to the point. Please point out to me: where in Holy Scripture is it said that sacrifice and priesthood will not remain until the second coming? If you do not show this and do not have it yourselves, then you do not have Christ’s Church. So please, Lev Feoktistovich, show me: where is it written in Holy Scripture that sacrifice and priesthood will not remain until the second coming?

L. F. Pichugin. I ask for your attention! You have heard the refutation of my speech by my interlocutor. But to my regret, my interlocutor keeps speaking about that mystery and that priesthood which once existed. We believe in the ancient priesthood and the mystery of Communion, and we pray that the Lord may grant us to partake of this great gift spiritually, in view of the present need. We also believe and pray to those holy hierarchs who were Orthodox and by whose holy hands the holy church mysteries were performed. But that time has passed. Enter into yourself, my most honorable interlocutor, and ask your conscience: in what time do we live? That priesthood about which you speak and testify has ceased. That priesthood was truly Christ’s; it flowed successively from the apostles and, as a precious gift of Jesus Christ, flowed like a grace-filled river from the years of the Gospel’s preaching until the year 1666, which you yourselves confirmed—that the true succession of grace-filled ordination was broken at that date. This is factually confirmed also by the fact that you had no sacred ordination for about 200 years. By this you yourselves proved that Christ’s ordination ceased in 1666, and therefore the priesthood as well—for one cannot exist without the other. Meanwhile you forget what you should remember: that Paul, Bishop of Kolomna, was a suffering bishop and confessor; he could have restored the priesthood in the manner of Eusebius of Samosata, who, disguised in military clothing, during the Arian heresy went through cities and ordained bishops alone as needed. Therefore, if Paul of Kolomna did not ordain a bishop to continue the priesthood, it was not because he was unable to ordain, but because it was God’s will; consequently, the time had come when impiety had to fully manifest itself in the world. God permitted the spirit of deception to tempt the whole world. But you keep speaking about that priesthood which we know better than you and believe in better than you, because it was lawful. We also believe that ordination was successive from the apostles. So it is not about that time and priesthood that you need to reason—about which there can be no dispute between us—but you need to speak about the time in which we live, about the priesthood that we see.

You said here that the Pomortsy in the temple built here arranged a sideboard instead of an altar. I do not understand what the man is talking about. Allow me to note, my dear brethren in faith, whose zeal has exceeded all expectations, built us such a magnificent temple for offering prayers to the Lord God. If they had no living faith, there would be no such temple; if they had no hope in God for salvation, there would be no such zeal. But I assure you, my brethren in faith had no thought of making an altar. They knew there was no priesthood, and instead of an altar they made a consultation room for spiritual persons and the council, where at the end of conciliar sessions, for lack of space, some of the brethren reverently partook of food. Tell me, did they not spend the night in churches in ancient times? Did they not dine in churches in ancient times? There were cases where even cattle were brought into the church, but the church was not harmed by this. No one laughed or mocked it, but my interlocutor spoke out of place about some sideboard, which has no place here. My dear brethren in faith did nothing unlawful in arranging a consultation room behind the iconostasis, claiming no altar; but you, inflamed with the bile of envy, spread to the public such words that the Pomortsy have a sideboard behind the iconostasis, but the public will evaluate this and understand that all your reproaches are worth nothing. You also referred to page 445 of the book of Nikon of the Black Mountain, where Saint Chrysostom speaks:

“Christ is present now, He who adorned that table; He adorns this one now. For it is not a man who makes what is set before us to be the body and blood of Christ, but Christ Himself crucified for us. The priest stands fulfilling the image, pronouncing the words, but the power and grace are God’s. ‘This is My body,’ He said. This word transforms what is set before us.”

I well understand that all this was in former times, but at the present time Christ no longer stands at your modern priesthood. I am not leading you into delusion regarding priesthood; you yourselves prove that any priesthood besides yours is deprived of grace. If you say that until Christ’s second coming the sacrifice will be offered in the church, you must indicate—in which church. Is the holy sacrifice offered in the Greek and dominant church in Russia? You yourselves factually confirm that it is not, for you call them heretical. Is it offered in the Armenian church? No, because the Armenians are heretics. Is it offered in the Western Catholic church? You also confirm that the pope fell away from the truth and that with him all Western countries fell into heresy. Why do you proceed so covertly and silently say that only with you is the truth, with you is priesthood and sacrifice, and nowhere else? Why lead yourselves and such a chosen people into delusion—people who for 4 days have reverently listened to our contestations? Speak openly about your church, about your sacrifice. So I will tell you that your sacrifice and church are not living—Christ’s—but artificial, human. It is proven in deed that you received priesthood from where, as you yourselves said, nothing good and holy can come. (Voices: “Off-topic.”)

No, on topic. My interlocutor cited the apostle’s words: “He who eats and drinks unworthily” directly against us. I am not offended that my interlocutor said the apostle supposedly speaks this about the Pomortsy: “Are the Pomortsy unworthy, that none of them has partaken for 250 years?” said my interlocutor. I will say to this: if the Pomortsy have not partaken for 250 years, it is only because they do not want to partake from heretics, but not out of caprice, not out of hostility to the holy, but out of extreme necessity, because all priesthood has fallen into heresy. I will read here a passage from the holy Gospel. Christ the Savior in a prefiguration said the following parable for this time—Gospel of Luke, Reading 87:

“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away.”

In that day, in that time when there will be temptation in faith and life, when false prophets appear, when false christs arise, then he who is on the housetop—that is, at the height of virtues and true faith—let him not take anything belonging to him below, not even a vessel:

“In that day of the Antichrist’s coming, he who is on the housetop, which is the height of virtues, let him not descend nor weaken for any pretext of worldly life: for all worldly things are called vessels to man. Thus he who stands at the height of virtue descends for worldly reasons and falls from his height, but let him stand against evil and not be silent.”

This is what these words mean. Further Christ says:

“Remember Lot’s wife.”

Tell me, my honorable interlocutor, why did Christ the Savior here mention not Lot, but only Lot’s wife? I am obliged to explain this: the holy Lot lived in Sodom and Gomorrah, whose inhabitants so angered God that God decided to destroy them for their impiety. Sending angels, God said to Lot:

“Go out, lest you also perish in the iniquity of the city. And it came to pass, when they had brought them outside, that he said, ‘Escape for your life! Do not look behind you nor stay anywhere in the plain.’”

Lot, leaving the city, following God’s commandments, did not look back, but what did Lot’s wife do? She felt sorry for what she had in Sodom and Gomorrah; she looked back and turned into a “pillar of salt.”

I have cited this parable not of a mere mortal man; this is the parable of Christ the Savior Himself. Before Christ’s words we must revere, listen to His words with contrition of heart and tenderness, for it pertains to the present time:

“By this parable God indicates Lot’s wife, who, turning back, became a pillar of salt. This means: not departing from evil, but remaining in its sweetness, becoming evil to the end.”

This event was a prefiguration of what happened in the days when our ancestors received the blow, when faith in the Church was shaken. Tell me, which of our ancestors, like Lot, fled without looking back at impiety, and which, like Lot’s wife, looked back at impiety? The Pomortsy, our ancestors, the sufferers of the Solovetsky Monastery, in the person of Paul of Kolomna, seeing the shaking of faith, went the path of personal salvation and, passing through temptations, never once looked back, but your ancestors, like Lot’s wife, looked back, pitying the priests, and became petrified, saying: “But how will we go to salvation without priests?” They forgot Lot’s exodus and, losing hope in God, looked back at heretical priesthood and became salted. In such petrification all the priestly ones remain to this day. This is what this parable means.

Further, in my interlocutor’s speech it was said: “is the Antichrist stronger than God?” What, what, my dear interlocutor. I did not think you would take such a direction—to make the Antichrist stronger than God! No, no! It is not the Antichrist who is stronger than God, but God is stronger than the Antichrist. God, because of our weakness, permitted the spirit of deception to tempt the world. He set in the parable that the bridegroom will come at midnight. Whoever waits for him in faith to the end will enter with the bridegroom into the bridal chamber, but whoever weakens will be outside the chamber. So the Antichrist will deceive people not by his own power, but by people’s unbelief—those who, not enduring need and not believing the truth, act falsely. So, to distinguish truth from falsehood, God permitted the Antichrist to tempt the whole world. The elect, as those who endured, will go to eternal life, said Christ, but those who are tempted will go to eternal fire:

“He who endures to the end will be saved.”

Such are God’s words spoken regarding the Antichrist and his deception.

Then, you read words from the Book on Faith, page 51:

“Amen, amen I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.—Who will not be horrified by the aforementioned prohibition and not obey the voice of the Lord. Except the one who wishes to destroy his life.”

These words are in the Gospel of John, chapter 6:

“I am the living bread… Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh… The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, ‘How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?’ Then Jesus said to them, ‘Amen, amen I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.’”

To whom were these words addressed—to the faithful or the unfaithful? Christ the Savior always spoke according to the occasion: in parables, edifyingly, and with rebukes. So in this case, when the Jews saw that Christ performed a miracle, feeding 5000 people with five loaves and two fish, and wanted to make Him king so as always to live idly, but the Savior got into a boat and sailed to the other side. The Jews went after Him, and to their question He said:

“Rabbi, when did You come here? Amen, amen I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.”

Speaking these words: “You seek Me not to believe in Me, but to live idly; you follow Me only for food and do not believe My miracles, but if you want to be Mine, believe in that bread which My Heavenly Father sent you.”

“I am the living bread. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst… This is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

You see, here the speech is about faith; one must believe in Christ. By faith Christ promises eternal life.

As for the Book on Faith, undoubtedly it speaks of true Communion, for the holy Church itself added this mystery to the mystery of faith and visible Communion.

Then, finally, from chapter 6 of the interpretations of the holy men, Saint John Chrysostom and Theophylact, Bishop of Bulgaria, it is evident that there is also Communion by faith. The Gospel of John, Reading 24, chapter 6:

“Everywhere He mentions life and often brings this name, since nothing is so dear to men as this thing. And you can not only eat and drink the flesh and blood of the Master by the secret Communion, but in another way, for one eats flesh when he undergoes active work, for the flesh of the worker is necessary, just as work is difficult. But he drinks blood like wine that gladdens the heart, I mean vision, for vision without labor is more than labor rest. For drinking without labor is more than food.”

Here it speaks of mysterious spiritual Communion, by which a person can partake separately, besides a priest, and especially in need.

Thus, the holy Church did not understand as you do that Communion must be only under one form, but as it pleased God, commanded that one can partake also mysteriously—that is, spiritually—by faith and desire.

Finally, you ask me: will the sacrifice of Communion be offered until Christ’s coming? I answer, listen: according to the teaching of the holy men—it will not be. I will confirm my answer to you with Scripture, that the Antichrist will disturb the sacrifice of Communion, that the Antichrist will darken the sacrifice, that the Antichrist will defile the altar and the sacrifice. Book of Cyril, page 55:

“For about this Saint Chrysostom says that the Antichrist, before his coming, will do what is everywhere on the altars, and will destroy the true sacrifice, and set up his idol in the holy place. For already such abominable desolation the false prophets sent by him begin. And from this we know that the day of the Lord is near. For when the last daily sacrifice established in Solomon’s Church was desolated, as spoken of that desolation in the Gospel, so also spoken by the prophet Daniel, again it was fulfilled and accomplished and the power of the Jews ended, and the Church was destroyed. So it will be in the desolation of the present holy sacrifice, which is not in Solomon’s Temple, but which is established throughout the whole world.”

The Antichrist, as it is said, will everywhere destroy the true altars and the true sacrifice—that is, true Communion. How to understand “destroy”? He will corrupt with false teaching not simply the sacrifice, but the “true” sacrifice, and along with it the holy place—that is, the altar. And what will replace it? As it is said, he will set up his idol in the holy place. And the idol is false teaching, heresies, evil teaching, which, as the abomination of desolation, will stand in the holy place. So may God save and preserve us from partaking of the Antichrist’s abomination of desolation! And if you say that this time has not yet come, the answer has already been read: “it was fulfilled and accomplished, and the power of the Jews ended, and the Church was destroyed.” And then: “so it will be in the desolation of the present holy sacrifice.” A clear answer! There will be no sacrifice: and not only in some particular place, not in Solomon’s temple, but throughout the whole world, as Scripture says, which I will read:

“And not only everywhere and in all places, but even in the initial Apostolic Church in Jerusalem he will bring the true sacrifice into desolation.”

This Scripture sorrowfully and truly speaks not simply of the sacrifice, but with emphasis: “He will bring the true sacrifice into desolation” and “everywhere and in all places”—that is, in all parts of the world; which has already been accomplished. The last words of the testimony say:

“And he will set his evil abomination in the holy place, as it is written: When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

I have laid as the foundation of my speech the prophetic and Gospel teaching on the mystery of Communion together with the Old Testament sacrifice and proved how the Jewish sacrifice was destroyed. And the Antichrist has emptied the holy sacrifice. And what is done in heretical temples, Holy Scripture relates that this is not a holy sacrifice, but the abomination of desolation. The Great Catechism speaks on this question, page 25:

“The abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place. That is, impious heresy will possess the holy churches.”

In general, it turns out that we shun not the holy great mystery of Communion, but the abomination of desolation. I read again the interrupted place in the Catechism:

“This abomination is interpreted according to the writing of John Chrysostom as the army of the Antichrist destroying the Church of God (below). This is the third reason. Because of which they will depart from the faith and approach heresy by desire. Which will have in itself Judaism and every impiety will be found in it.”

And what does this word “Judaism” mean? It means, on the one hand, to revile heretics, and on the other hand, to have communion with them either in dogmas of faith or in anything else—this is Judaism. And among the priestly ones it is evident.

Then blessed Jerome explains what the mountains are to which one must flee from the abomination of desolation. His Works, part 3, p. 182: “But we, hearing the words of the Lord Savior: let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let us lift our eyes to those mountains of which it is written: ‘I will lift up my eyes to the mountains, from where my help will come’ (Ps. 120:1). And in another place: ‘Its foundations are on the holy mountains’ (Ps. 86:1). Again: ‘The mountains surround it, and the Lord surrounds His people’ (Ps. 124:2), and ‘A city set on a hill cannot be hidden’ (Matt. 5:14). Casting off from our feet the skin of the letter and entering with Moses barefoot onto the mountain, let us say: ‘I will pass by and see this great vision’ (Ex. 3:3).”

Here, my most honorable interlocutor, you must first cast off from your tongue the skin of the letter, since you judge everything by the letter; ascend with reason higher and look into the core of the word, look at the mystery of the spirit of Scripture, revering it, and give it a just evaluation. But you go by the letter, eating the skin, and it pricks your jaws. And what would this mean? Blessed Jerome says here: “When he sees the abomination of desolation standing in the Church, and Satan transforming himself into an angel of light” (2 Cor. 11:14). That is, when you see heresies in the church and Satan—that is, a false bishop—pretending to be an angel of light—that is, showing himself Orthodox—flee from this church and this deceiver, for “the apostle spoke of this abomination of heretical and impious teaching, that the man of sin and the opponent will exalt himself above every so-called God or object of worship, so as to sit in the Church of God, showing himself as God” (2 Thess. 2:4). So said blessed Jerome. If a false heretical bishop is Satan, how will I allow myself to be given alive to him as food? God save and preserve! My dear brethren in faith, though they live outwardly in poverty—that is, without priesthood—their wealth is in the inner state of right faith. They shun only the abomination of desolation. I ask you to pay attention to the following testimony. Works of Saint Hippolytus, Pope of Rome, interpretation on the prophet Daniel, p. 147: “And then the sacrifice and libation, which are now offered to God in every place and by all nations, will be taken away.” Do you see how Holy Scripture teaches us about the great mystery of Communion: it, says the great man of the Church, will be taken away, and taken away, understandably, from the Church. When will this be? The holy father says: in the last week of Daniel; and it is in this that we live.

Thus, you prove that Communion is eternal, but I have proved that the mystery of Communion will be emptied—that is, corrupted by heretics. There will be no this mystery, and if there is, it will only be the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.

This has already factually been accomplished, which you yourselves prove by not communing in the sacrifice with Christians of the whole universe, but disputing about universal Communion. Why then deceive the public in this? If universal Communion is eternal, why do you shun all nationalities in the Christian name, and go only your own narrow path, not even communing with the priestly anti-Okružhniki? Do you not clearly prove your weakness by this? You speak of Communion, but do not point out where it is. Speak with the tongue of a truthful, honest man, but do not point to what was in the ancient Church regarding priesthood.

If we remain without priesthood, it is not by our own will, but because priesthood has fallen into heresies. To this accusation of yours I will answer with the words of the patriarch of blessed memory Jeremiah of Constantinople (Historical Acts of Southwestern Russia, vol. 5, p. 241): “What does he do (Jeremiah)? He gathers the verbal flock, the sheep of Christ, be they tanners, saddlers, shoemakers of every estate, rank, and age, Orthodox Christians. Having gathered them, he says to them with these words: Save yourselves, my brethren, yourselves, for you cannot be saved by pastors! Why? Because they think not only of your salvation but not even of their own; already the pastors pilgrimage according to the light of this world, already the pastors have enlisted in the service of the prince of this world. Already the pastors care nothing for eternal life, yours or their own. Already the present pastors intend to live out the age in luxury, to glorify themselves, to play, to enrich themselves, to become wise. Save yourselves, my beloved brethren, faithful flock of Christ, chosen race, holy tongue, royal priesthood, people of renewal, pious Russian people—yourselves; save yourselves by faith, save yourselves by the Gospel commandments; save yourselves by the paternal law; save yourselves by honest and chaste life.”

Do you see what the pastor of Christ’s Church says: brethren, simple folk, craftsmen, laborers of every kind and position, save yourselves if you want to be saved yourselves; you, simple folk, save yourselves! For the time has come when your pastors have departed from the truth, think not of God’s Judgment, but care only for themselves—to grow rich, live luxuriously, glorify themselves with clothing and wealth, but not with faith, not according to God’s Law, and not with a meek and humble life. Therefore know, children, says blessed Jeremiah, that the church pastors have given themselves to the service not of God but of the prince of this world—that is, the devil. Your pastors, bishops and priests, have betrayed God in faith; they are distinguished not by truth, seek not eternal life, but splendor of clothing and work only for gluttony. These are not pastors but wolves! But what should simple people do without pastors? How to be saved? And this is the main thing. To these questions the true pastor and man of wisdom says: “Save yourselves by yourselves.” The great teacher as if climbs a high tower and makes a call, tearfully pleading, says: “Save yourselves, brethren, by yourselves, do not abandon the covenants of our fathers, walk the Gospel path, perform virtues and God’s commandments, live abstinently and chastely, hold to right faith, and faith will save you. Believe that you can be saved even without priesthood.”

My time is coming to an end; I must say in my defense a few more words from the Scripture of the holy father of the Church and teacher, the venerable Ephrem the Syrian, who, grieving over the present times, says (Word 105):

“Then the earth and the sea will weep”…

And tell me, can the earth weep, can the soulless and voiceless sea weep, if only understood literally? “Then the voice of singing and prayer from human lips will cease.”

This is as if people will be without singing and without voice.

“Then all Christ’s Churches will weep with great weeping.”

I explain: Christ’s Churches are believing people; they will not simply weep, but weep with great weeping.

“Because there will be no holy service in the altars nor offering—that is, the body and blood of Christ.”

This is what they will weep over: that there will be no service in the altars—not simply no service, but no holy service in the altars; not only no holy service, but no offering—that is, the body and blood of Christ. Over this the pious people will weep: that there will be nowhere to receive this great mystery. This Scripture has been fulfilled. The time has come; the pious people weep over the altars and the mystery of offering. And who is this pious people? These are my dear brethren in faith, whom I have the happiness to defend.

BREAK

Chairman. Honorable assembly! I declare the session open.

D. S. Varakin. We have heard another speech from my interlocutor, Mr. Pichugin. In this speech he gave an answer: “I am asked, he says, where in Holy Scripture it is said that sacrifice and priesthood will not remain until the second coming. I answer: they will not remain.” We will approach this answer and see how much foundation it has. But first let us pay attention to some of his words. It seems it has become a little offensive to my interlocutor when I pointed out that it is not the Antichrist who is to blame for the priestless having no sacrifice, but that they themselves build temples and allocate places for altars, but do not place altars in them. He says: “well, our benefactors and trustees built these temples and wished to arrange a council room behind the iconostasis.” They did this. It is clear that they did it, not the Antichrist. They made a council room instead of an altar, but testify against the Antichrist: the Antichrist destroyed everything. But they had nothing there that could be destroyed. So here you vainly accuse the Antichrist: this is the work of your hands. You yourselves did not set up an altar but set up something else, not what should have been. (The speaker is interrupted, saying this does not pertain to the matter.) It pertains: since our discussion is about the sacrifice, and they have none, it pertains.

Now let us pay attention to what my interlocutor said regarding Lot’s wife. He says: “look at Lot’s wife.” Before developing this subject, I will ask my interlocutor: where in Scripture is it said that Lot’s wife supposedly means accepting the second and third ranks of priesthood from heretics? Where is such an example? First, this does not exist; this is Mr. Pichugin’s own interpretation; but such has no value for us. And second, Lot’s wife means the holy Church. About this writes blessed Irenaeus of Lyons (p. 403): “His wife remained in the land of Sodom no longer with corruptible flesh, but as a pillar of salt, always abiding, which through natural functions shows what is usual in man, just as the Church, which is the salt of the earth, remained within the bounds of the earth and is subject to human things; and while whole members are taken from her, she remains a pillar of salt—that is, the foundation of faith, which strengthens and sends forth sons to their Father.” Here is what Lot’s wife means: the Church, which is the salt of the earth. Lot’s wife turned back and became a pillar of salt. What comparison is here? Did not the Church turn back to return the erring? Throughout the entire history of Christ’s Church do we not see tens, hundreds of thousands of examples that the holy Church, like Lot’s wife, turned back and waited for the conversion and repentance of those who fell into heresy and error? This is the salt of the earth and the support of humanity. As whole members are taken from her and she remains a pillar of salt, so from the Church members are taken who deviate into error, and she remains a pillar of salt—that is, the foundation of faith, which strengthens and sends sons to their fathers. The very foundation of faith in the Church is unshakable; but you have none. Among the foundations of faith Christ established until His second coming the sacrifice. This is a foundation of faith; but you have none, so there is no foundation of faith.

Then you said that in the Gospel of John Christ said: “I am the living bread…” and that to believe the teaching means also to partake. But is not the teaching about the sacrifice contained in Christ’s teaching? Is there not in this teaching the indispensable question of the sacrifice, without which the Church cannot be? In this teaching there is the sacrifice arranged by the Lord Himself, and it will remain until the second coming, as the holy Apostle Paul and John Chrysostom say. The interlocutor says that under the living bread is meant teaching. This is a great error of my interlocutor. To correct this error, it is worth turning to the holy Gospel and learning what is meant here by living bread.

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world” (Gospel of John, ch. 6, v. 51).

Further it says:

“Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you” (Ibid., v. 53).

This is what this bread means in the Gospel to which you referred. Then my interlocutor read in defense of his conviction from the Great Catechism, page 24 reverse:

“The prophet Daniel said, the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place. That is, impious heresy will possess the holy churches.”

What is this abomination of desolation? The abomination of desolation in the holy place is heretical teaching. What kind of teaching is this? That the sacrifice will not remain until the second coming. Here with you instead of the sacrifice this impious teaching is set up. Then, reading this place, you omitted another place in this same Catechism, which testifies that this sacrifice and this very teaching about it will remain until the end of the age:

“That which the Lord God said, ‘Increase and multiply and fill the earth,’ was spoken once and is always fulfilled whenever nature is applied to birth. So this word of the Lord was spoken once. Which on all altar thrones even to this day, and until His coming, gives power to the sacrifice” (Great Catechism, p. 384).

To this place, when I read it to the interlocutor, he paid no attention. But I repeat and continue further:

“Do you see, heretic, that this mystery is not accomplished by the mere reading of the epistle of the holy Apostle Paul or by preaching. Nor by simple prayers. But by blessing and consecration, as the holy Apostle Paul says: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? We bless the cup—that is, we consecrate the wine in the cup and say Christ’s words: this is My blood. Not by preaching, nor by reading do they act, but by blessing. Just as Christ blessed the bread, so we bless on the divine table. By this also the other heretical deception is driven away, which thinks that the mystery is accomplished not in consecration but in the very use.”

About the teaching, he read from the Apostle Paul that supposedly the sacrifice will not remain until the second coming. He speaks in vain. It is not the preaching itself or the reading of the apostle’s epistle, or our simple prayers, but blessing and consecration, as the holy Apostle Paul says. Here it is—not teaching, but the actions of the priest, even blessing. This is what teaching means. This is what living bread means.

Then my interlocutor read from Ephrem the Syrian, Word 105:

“Then all Christ’s churches will weep with great weeping, because there will be no holy service in the altars, no offering.”

And it seems he almost wept himself. This is Word 105, page 304 reverse. But it is a pity that the interlocutor did not read everything. And why? Because if everything is read, it only exposes them. I will take just two and a half lines higher, starting with a capital letter. But you began with a small one.

“Then the earth and the sea will weep, for suddenly the voice of singing and prayer from human lips will cease.”

But did you hear what they sang yesterday? I was with them during the service; they sang then too.

“All Christ’s Church will weep with great weeping, because there will be no sacrifice in the altar.”

There are not even any offerings in the altar, but they sing and do not cease. Well, what kind of teaching is this? The Antichrist came and destroyed everything, destroyed the sacrifices and arranged something else, but could not eliminate singing. So according to you, simple singing is stronger than Christ’s sacrifice. Dear interlocutor, I should read this passage against you. After all, all holy services are performed in the altar: the liturgy and the all-night vigil. I am very grateful to you for acknowledging that you have nothing holy—only you say the liturgy alone is holy, but nothing else is holy. So, does that mean you have no holy service? Then why do you pray, why do you sing?

When Ephrem the Syrian says that singing from human lips will cease, he writes about visible churches. Where in the last kingdom of the last Antichrist they accept his teaching, there the churches will weep and there will be no service. The interlocutor will say: in Christ’s Church there will be no holy service. Who will destroy it? He says—the Antichrist. You say there is no Christ’s Church with us, no in the dominant church, no with the Armenians, no with the Catholics. Where is it then? With you, you will say? Yes! That means the Antichrist destroyed the sacrifice with you. That means you have the Antichrist. I congratulate you on the Antichrist.

But that the sacrifice will remain until the second coming, that this sacrifice will not cease, and that the Antichrist will not be able to destroy it in Christ’s Church (the Antichrist is able to destroy the sacrifice only with you, but he is unable to destroy it in Christ’s Church), the same Ephrem the Syrian on page 320 of his book writes the following:

“For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Son of Man (1 Cor., Reading 149), for the word of God is living and active. And all this, as much as God desired, He created. And if there is the word: let there be light, and there was light. Let there be a firmament, and there was (Genesis, ch. 2). And if by the Lord’s words the heavens were established. So if heaven and earth, water and fire, air and all creation were accomplished by God’s words, and the word-speaking man, and if the God-Word of all things desired to become man, then can He not make this prosphora His flesh, and wine and water His blood? In the beginning He commanded the earth to bring forth grass, and even until this hour, when rain comes, it immediately brings forth its growths by God’s command and as if coming from the earth, having first received the power of the Lord’s words. For God said: this is My body, and this is My blood, and do this in My remembrance (Matt. 108, Mark 64, Luke 108), so by His almighty command it happens until He comes (1 Cor., Reading 149), for so He spoke: until I come. And just as rain coming upon the earth immediately grows grass, so this holy rain—I mean the Holy Spirit—called by the priest’s prayer, visiting by His power, immediately makes this bread flesh and wine blood. Just as God created from the beginning by the action of that Holy Spirit.”

Once God said: “let the earth bring forth grass,” no one can forbid this creation of God from growing. It always grows throughout the entire history of the world. So it is impossible to stop this command of God: “this is My body, this is My blood, do this in My remembrance, so the proclaimed command happens until He comes.” So God spoke: until I come. This is what Ephrem the Syrian writes. Where will the sacrifice cease? There where they accept the Antichrist’s teaching, because there where they accept it, there is the abomination of desolation. And since you have neither throne nor altar, but the abomination of desolation, it means you have accepted the Antichrist. From the soul I wish you to be delivered from this enemy, the Antichrist. Our interlocutor read to us that the Antichrist will everywhere destroy the altar and the sacrifice, but I read to him that it is not the Antichrist who will destroy it, but He who instituted it will abolish it. The same holy Ephrem the Syrian, from whom my interlocutor read, in part 6, on p. 75 writes: “And He will confirm a covenant with many; the slain King—Christ—will confirm a covenant with many with His blood. One week and half a week, and the sacrifice will be taken away. He who instituted them will abolish them.” And who instituted? Christ. He will abolish. Blessed Theodoret says that there will be no need for the sacrifice at Christ’s coming, because the Body itself will appear. Christ Himself will come then. But if, according to you, the Antichrist abolished it, does that mean he instituted it? This is horror what you say. Then my honorable interlocutor, answering that the sacrifice will not remain until the second coming, read to us a passage from the Book of Cyril, page 32.

“For the Antichrist before his coming will destroy the altars and the sacrifice everywhere.”

Pay attention, here it says before his coming, meaning before the Antichrist came. He is not yet here, he has not come, but before coming he destroyed the sacrifice. How is it that he has not come but destroyed? Here in the Book of Cyril there is a scribal error or misprint. This in the Book of Cyril is taken from the Explanatory Apostle, where it says “before Christ’s coming,” not his own. Here is the scribe’s error who copied this book. These words are placed in the Book of Cyril and instead of “Christ’s” it says before “his own” coming. That is the matter. Second, the Antichrist will destroy it. And where? There where

“Heretics have no sacrifice, note the abomination of desolation, for heretics have no altars, and when they remain in Christian churches, they destroy and cast out from the altar the physiasthirion—that is, the altar” (Book of Cyril, p. 32).

Saint Chrysostom writes about the same, that heretics, once they stopped offering sacrifices, destroyed the altars, made something improper in the altars for themselves, meaning here is the abomination of desolation. Further my interlocutor read:

“For when the last daily sacrifice established in Solomon’s church was desolated, as spoken of that desolation in the Gospel, so also spoken by the prophet Daniel, again it was fulfilled and accomplished and the power of the Jews ended, and the church was destroyed. So it will be in the desolation of the present holy sacrifice, which is not in Solomon’s temple, but which is established throughout the whole world.”

Here, he says, nothing will be, but what will be after this he does not say. He did not finish reading:

“Then this age will also end.”

But he left this out. When everywhere on earth they accept the Antichrist’s teaching, the faithful will be persecuted and oppressed and there will be no possibility to offer bloodless sacrifices, then the age will end. But when did your age end? After Nikon we have lived another 250 years and cannot convince you that you are in error. That indeed, during the time of the Antichrist the priesthood will remain, there are also proofs for this. Even if we accept that the last Antichrist reigns, even then the priesthood will remain. Here is what Saint Andrew of Caesarea writes in the interpretation of the Apocalypse:

Present. “And every mountain and hill will be moved from their places. Interpretation: When the powerful of this life or those of church rank, called mountains, and the fathers of the faithful churches according to Isaiah, flee from their places, changing place for place because of the Antichrist.”

This is what is said. As a result of such unprecedented persecution in the times of the last Antichrist, the leaders of church order and the faithful churches will not cease, but will flee from the Antichrist, changing places one for another. Why then do they (the Pomortsy) not flee anywhere? Who persecutes them? Is it not known to everyone that they freely build temples, freely gather for celebrations and prayers, perform processions. Who persecutes them? They themselves simply did not want to arrange altars.

Then, honorable listeners, my interlocutor read so plaintively from the Historical Acts the words of Patriarch Jeremiah. But here too there is a distortion. To give more authority to these words, which were written by the monk John of Vyshensky, he read these words in the name of the patriarch, for this monk is not a very authoritative person. What is the speech about there? Why, dear interlocutor, did you not point out to the people what the speech is about there? There the speech is about the Little Russian Christians who remained alone with pious priests as a result of the bishops’ retreat to the pope. “Save yourselves… do not retreat from the pious faith.” Here the speech is specifically about the Little Russian Christians. And after this, a hundred years later there was Paul, Bishop of Kolomna. After all, the Little Russian Christians did not begin to save themselves as you do—they did not place a council room instead of altars in their places. So here too you have untruth. We were told here that Paul of Kolomna could have appointed a successor for himself. Why was this said? I suppose that if my interlocutor—of course, God forbid this, I only say as an example—if he had to sit locked in a casemate for something, guards were assigned, icons were not hung and they said: why do you not bow to the icon, he would say there is no icon. So too Paul of Kolomna: since he was kept in exile, deprived of all communication with the world, he was deprived of the opportunity not only to ordain but even to serve the liturgy. What to demand from him. But that there be teaching from Paul of Kolomna that the sacrifice will not remain until the second coming—this does not exist. On the contrary, our ancestors wrote this: Protopope Avvakum writes:

“Do not move the boundaries which the fathers set, and hold the tradition unchanged. One must be baptized as we received, believe as we were baptized. But ring this in your ears, adversary: you abolish the priesthood, and the mystery in a Lutheran and Calvinist way. You have wandered, friend, into the depth of evils; arise; for neither the devil himself can abolish the holy mysteries, nor the Antichrist with his offspring. The Master said to His disciples: I am with you until the end of the age, amen. Our head is Christ, King and High Priest. When He allows the order (of holiness) to be abolished, do not be tempted, child: even if the priesthood is exiled, it will not perish to the end. And those people who do not partake, they do not do well; with their own invention they say: grace has been taken away. And after the Antichrist, after the last devil, grace will not abandon His faithful” (Book of Borozdin “Protopope Avvakum”, p. 15 in the appendix).

This is what our ancestors wrote. So you stop your ears. Thus the asps stop their ears, the psalmist writes: “like a deaf asp stopping its ears.”

“And those who separate themselves from Communion, when it is possible to receive the holy sacrament, pure holy service, I do not praise that. For the Lord Himself said: he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in him. How boldly they say that the holy mysteries cannot be found. Only we are supposedly the holy people, and everyone else has perished! Dear fathers, good is zeal for God, but know its measure. Do not beware, the sacrifice will not be abolished to the end even by the Antichrist himself. For the Master said: I am with you until the end of the age” (Ibid., appendix p. 15).

This is what Protopope Avvakum says regarding the eternity of the priesthood. Here are how many proofs from our ancestors and the strongest from Holy Scripture that the sacrifice will remain until the second coming. But with them there is none, none, and none. It is said: “the sacrifice will cease and singing will stop,” but they sing, but there is no sacrifice. You read this to your own head. Saint John of Damascus also writes. See, brethren, how many proofs in defense of the eternal abiding in Christ’s Church of priesthood and sacrifice:

“Then breaking the bread, He gave it to them saying: take and eat, this is My body, broken for you for the remission of sins. Likewise taking the cup of wine and water, He gave it to them saying: drink of it all of you, this is My blood of the new covenant, shed for you for the remission of sins. Do this in My remembrance. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Son of Man and confess His resurrection until He comes. If then the word of God is living and active, and the Lord did whatever He desired. If He said: let there be light, and there was: let there be a firmament, and there was. If by the Lord’s word the heavens were established, and by the breath of His mouth all their host. If heaven and earth, water and fire and air, and all their beauty were accomplished by the Lord’s word, and this most glorious living creature man. If God the Word Himself desiring became man, and from the holy ever-Virgin, pure and undefiled blood seedlessly formed flesh, can He not make bread His body, and wine and water blood? He said in the beginning: let the earth bring forth green grass, and until now when rain comes, it brings forth its proper plants, driven and empowered by divine command. God said: This is My body, and this is My blood, and do this in My remembrance. And by His almighty command, until He comes, it happens. For so He said: until He comes” (Book “The Heavens” of Damascus, p. 77).

I have finished the proofs, and my time is ending. Concluding my speech, I turn again to my interlocutor. That it is bad with heretics, I do not need to speak: I myself know that it is bad with heretics. There is no need to speak about our hierarchy either. If you wish to continue discussions about this, I agree to discuss for another two days specifically about our hierarchy, but now I ask you not to deviate one inch from the question. So you see that the holy fathers wrote that priesthood and sacrifice will remain until the second coming. Please answer the question?

L. F. Pichugin. I ask for your attention, dear listeners! You have heard the second and third speech of my interlocutor and his refutations regarding my testimonial data from Holy Scripture and heard his interpretation. Everything that my interlocutor said only confirms my words; he only repeated once again the same truth that I told you from a pure heart. My interlocutor spoke about the eternity of the sacrifice, that the sacrifice will continue until the end of the age, and showed himself in his actions that he has nothing in common with Scripture and with those holy men who wrote about this. About the New Testament sacrifice wrote holy men, church teachers, Orthodox and having direct succession of ordination from Christ. So these are not your men, with whom Christ’s men and the teachers of the truly Christ’s Church have nothing in common. But your priesthood and sacrifice do not depict the eternity of Christ’s sacrifice and ordination, but only a crude heretical counterfeit of soulless priesthood, as you yourselves testified that you received priesthood from a heretic. Therefore the full obligation lies on you to defend only your priesthood and your sacrifice, but you, as everyone now sees, try to bypass this question in silence and fear it like red-hot iron, fearing exposure; you hide your hands in your pockets and do not touch it. For this deceptive sacrifice of yours is performed only since 1846, it is a little over 60 years old, younger than a human age, remade from new to old style.

Now I will follow in your footsteps. Tell me, why did you say nothing to me about the words of the Gospel of Christ the Savior “about the salt of lost-flavor priesthood”? And why do you think, listeners? Because this lost-flavor priesthood is precisely with them; it is thrown outside the church fence by law and trampled by reasonable people.

My interlocutor also read about altars and thrones from the Book of Cyril. Before I speak about altars, I will repeat the words of my interlocutor. He said that we without priests constitute nothing. On the contrary, even without visible priesthood we constitute a single whole, first of all by the inner power of hope, the beauty of expectation, and we are built on the granite of faith, not communing with false priesthood. Our holy faith is not darkened by either heretical baptism or heretical priesthood. This is the only beauty shining everywhere. But your faith is darkened by your superstition in soulless priesthood, your mysteries are darkened by false priests and bishops. So you have nothing in common with us. You throw mud at a crystal, but no matter how much you throw, your mud remains mud for you, and the crystal will not dim. And that without priesthood, in need, one can be saved, here is what the venerable John of Vyshensky tells us, book of Zachariah Kopystensky On the One Truth, page 224: “For your speech about the purification of the church has begun, and we will continue to do so. Let them ascend to the priestly degree according to the rules of the holy fathers, and not according to their own carnal desires, for the sake of property and papacy seizing the rank. And every such one who jumps in himself, do not accept, and even given by the king without your election, expel and curse. For you were not baptized into the pope, nor into the king’s power, that he give you wolves, villains, robbers and Antichrist’s mystagogues. It is better for you without bishops and without priests set by the devil to go to church and keep Orthodoxy, than with bishops and priests not called by God to be in the church and mock it and trample Orthodoxy. It is not priests who will save you or bishops or metropolitans, but the mystery of your Orthodox faith, keeping God’s commandments, that wants to save us.”

Heretics, false bishops and priests do not do good, but evil, they make money by evil, live for contentment, deceive people; they are not pastors but robbers in the spiritual sense. False teachers, false priests who by deception destroy the souls trusting them—these are all your priests who entered not by the lawful door but over the fence of the law. These words of Christ the Savior are repeated by the holy man. Then—Antichrist’s mystagogues. By these words it is made known that false bishops are not Christ’s servants but Antichrist’s accomplices, for they originated not from Christ but from the Antichrist. I have proved to you on the basis of part 13 of blessed Jerome that as many false teachings as there are, so many Antichrists. Where there is only false teaching, there is the Antichrist, and false teaching regarding heretical priesthood is with you. That place where you took your bishop, you call Babylon, the dwelling of demons and a nest of every unclean spirit, as testifies the book of your bishop Ivan Grigorievich Usov. By this you convicted yourselves: you bought one demon, and from him by evil spirit you perform mysteries. As for the bishop, he can be recreated only by a grace-filled hand; like an unfired clay vessel, he must be tempered by fire—that is, by the grace of the Holy Spirit, but there was no one with you to do this, therefore I can compare your modern priesthood only with raw clay pots. Then it is said: “it is better for you to be without priests and without bishops set by the devil.” So who sets priests and bishops among heretics—not Christ, but the devil. Do not count it rudeness, beloved listeners, I am forced to testify this and object to the remarks of my interlocutor. (Noise, cries: “To the point.”) I ask for your attention, do not betray your weakness by noise. I ask for attention! I was silent on everything my interlocutor said; I did not say a word when he applied the abomination of desolation to us. And my brethren in faith did not say a word to all the reproaches of my opponent. The behavior of my brethren in the discussions is instructive for you. By your protest you only declare once again your weakness. I am reading a book. (Cries: “Speak to the substance!”) I know better than you how to speak to the substance.

Chairman. Gentlemen, for God’s sake do not interfere.

Pichugin. I read: “It would be better for you to be without bishops and without priests set by the devil.” Perhaps this reading offends you, especially those of you who consider yourselves bishop or priest. But do not be offended at me. I am the same mortal as you, and only serve as an instrument of Scripture. My lips speak, but it is not I who speak; the church teachers speak.

Thus, heretical priests and bishops, as false, are not set by Christ, but by the devil. And you, gentlemen, not fearing God’s Judgment, not heeding the duty of conscience, carry this devilish priesthood around Russia. It would be better for you to be without devilish priesthood and go to church and keep Orthodoxy, than with bishops and priests not come to you from God to mock the church and trample its sacred laws!

To us pertain the words of the venerable man: “it is not priests who will save you or bishops or metropolitans, but the mystery of your faith and good deeds,” and this teaching is precisely applicable to our time. Here is our justification by faith, hope for the future, and foundation in our present life. Following the teaching of Christ’s Church, we firmly hold to it. It is not I who built our position by faith, dear listeners, but the Spirit of God through the lips of holy men. If I do not tell the truth, what kind of defender of my conviction by faith will I be? Likewise your defender, if he does not say what needs to be said, what kind of interlocutor will he be? After all, you heard, dear listeners, what my interlocutor said: “with you, priestless Pomortsy, is the Antichrist.” I endured this reproach, and my brethren in faith also endured it. Here, he said, “they build temples, made a council room instead of an altar, here is the abomination of desolation.” We listened, did not protest. So, gentlemen, learn patience from us.

The abomination of desolation has indeed stood, but let us see where: with us or with you? Christ the Savior said to one cunning servant:

“Cunning servant, by your own mouth I will judge you.”

So I will pronounce judgment, pronounced by the lips of your own bishops. Your bishop of Zadunai Anastasius writes: “Peace and God’s blessing to my children in the Lord! Know, children, that certain shameless ones thinking themselves Christians announced that finding in a cave the relics of the holy martyrs Dada, Gaveddai, and Kozdoi, but as doctors examined these bones, it turned out that these are corpses of Circassians, a dog, and a hare, and the accursed priest Stefan consecrated altars on these bones” p. 11. Further he writes: “Under the temple a cave is dug, on the floor of the cave lie two corpses, there lie corpses of a dog and a hare.” “By this abomination he (the priest) defiled many churches.” So here is where the abomination of desolation is.

My brethren in faith with flaming zeal and prayer built a temple to the Lord God and a section for spiritual affairs and council, but on what do you build your churches and altars? Your bishop Anastasius directly says: on the corpses of a dog and a hare—here is the abomination of desolation! Unknown corpses lay in the crypt without any Christian signs, and suddenly, out of nowhere, your council recognized them as relics of Persian martyrs.

It is not in the council room of my brethren in faith that the abomination of desolation is, but in your churches. And who writes about this? Your Anastasius, bishop of the city of Izmail. I think this is enough. You spoke out of place, my interlocutor, to offend my beloved brethren for building the temple. To such inappropriate statements and claims, as not pertaining to the matter, I gave you a rebuff.

You also said: “Where is it said that under Lot’s wife one can understand that we accept heretical bishops and priests?” But I did not say that under Lot’s wife one should understand that you accept bishops and priests. I said: your ancestors saw the need for priests and looked back. Meanwhile they said: “It is bad to live with heretical priests, but worse without them.” So too Lot’s wife: it is bad to live without house and property, but worse to live with beasts and suffer hunger; she looked back, through unbelief, to the perishing place and became salted. Thus you too did not believe God’s command to flee without looking back from the fall, looked back at heretical priests and became petrified.

I draw attention to the following words of my interlocutor: “What is the abomination of desolation? It is with you, he says, Pomortsy, because you teach that the sacrifice will cease.” To this I can object to my interlocutor: it is not we who teach that instead of the mystery of Communion the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place, but God Himself, through the lips of the prophet Daniel, and the Lord Jesus Christ in the Gospel, that “the Antichrist before his coming will do what is everywhere on the altars and destroy the sacrifice.” But what did my interlocutor say to this passage from the Book of Cyril? He resorted to an improper device and with mockery said: “This is an error in the Book of Cyril, simply a misprint.” But allow me to ask you, Mr. interlocutor, on what basis do you say this is a misprint? Where did you find in Scripture such a remark to diminish the Book of Cyril by this? I will point you to the title page of the Book of Cyril, where it says:

“Truly this most excellent book is like a great ship laden with great wealth, for it is richly furnished with divine Scripture as a shield and barrier against evil heretics.”

Here is a worthy review of this holy book.

Then you also noted: “Then singing in churches will cease, but you, he says, sing, and sang yesterday.” First of all, I could say that my interlocutor speaks this off-topic. We sang yesterday in the temple, yes! But Saint Ephrem the Syrian does not speak of this ordinary singing, but of sacrificial singing, the Cherubic Hymn, and praise over the sacrifice. This is the singing in question.

For this singing occurs not in a common assembly, but where a true bishop in concelebration with presbyters and deacons offers the sacred sacrifice to the Lord God.

I will go further following the words of my interlocutor. He said another impropriety: “You have the Antichrist, congratulations.” But what signs do we have that the Antichrist is with us? For the Antichrist, like a wolf, will clothe himself in the robe of a true pastor, will be a pretended bishop. And that this is so, I will confirm by the thirteenth chapter of the book of the Apocalypse. There it says:

“And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb.”

Like a lamb, it is said. What lamb? The true Lamb Jesus Christ, standing on Mount Zion. So the false christ appears for the deception of the deluded in the form of Christ. So does anyone among the Pomortsy dress in sacred robes and call himself by the name of Christ—a bishop? How out of place! This does not mean a simpleton in modest clothing, but a hidden wolf, according to the interpretation of Andrew of Caesarea, a false bishop, for

“The Antichrist desires to imitate the Son of God in everything.”

Who, one asks, pretends to be in the image of Christ? False bishops and false priests. But we have none, and the insult inflicted on us falls with all its weight on your head. This happens with you, not with us.

Then, you cited page 75 of part 6 of the Works of Ephrem the Syrian, with the words that “He who instituted the sacrifices will abolish them.” Most honorable interlocutor, from the passage you read and your personal explanation it is evident that you are as ignorant in prophetic Scripture as you are intemperate in words and tongue. Reading the prophet’s words in Ephrem the Syrian, you should have thought and asked yourself what and about whom this is spoken. For this is spoken about Old Testament sacrifices, not about the mystery of Communion. I will read this passage and you will see that it will be as I say: “For this migration will not be like the Egyptian or Babylonian migration. From Egypt the Jews returned after four hundred years, and from Babylon they will return after seventy.” One asks: about whom is the speech? About the Jews who returned from Egypt after four hundred years, and from Babylon after seventy. Is this not clear? Further the holy father says: “But this desolation appointed by God will not cease, and forever it will be given to desolation.” Is it not evident here that this speaks of the last desolation of the Jews by the Romans? Finally, Saint Ephrem cites the words of the prophet Daniel: “And he will confirm a covenant with many; the slain King Christ with His blood will confirm a covenant with many. One week and half a week, and the sacrifice and offering will be taken away. He who instituted them will abolish them.” It turns out my interlocutor did not understand the most important thing. “Them”—that is, lawful sacrifices, and if this were spoken about the mystery of Communion, it would say: “He who instituted it will abolish it.” This is what my interlocutor lacks. And this is clear as God’s day that here it speaks of the institution of Old Testament sacrifices. God instituted them in the Sinai desert through Moses and Aaron the high priest, and on the cross abolished them. This is the sacrifice spoken of here. One needs to read a little more diligently and tell the public only what is truth. Then, what does my interlocutor say: “Here we have been struggling with the Pomortsy after Nikon.” But I have seen you only for the third time, Dmitry Sergeevich. We are comparatively so young, but after Nikon 250 years have passed, and no mortal could achieve such longevity.

But here is what you said well: “that from the years of Nikon to the present time we cannot prove to you.” Here is honor to you. This is the truth you said, that you cannot prove the correctness of your priesthood.

Then you say: “They will flee from the Antichrist, but where will the priestless flee?” And in this case you are gravely mistaken. The priestless do not commune with those close to the Antichrist; in this respect they flee. And how do they flee? By removing themselves from those fallen into heresies, from the teaching of the erring, from the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.

Then you said that I supposedly read incorrectly from the book of Southwestern Acts, that it is not Patriarch Jeremiah who writes, but the monk John. Untruth. You must read books too dully. Here look: “What does he do?”

One must read more attentively. Look at the words: “What does he do?” Jeremiah gathers the flock. For if John were writing, he would say what I do, what I perform, what I gather the flock. The monk John would have no right to say that he gathers the flock, because he is a simple monk, and this is proper only to bishops. Tell me, how dull this is.

Then you stopped again on Avvakum. Tell me, dear interlocutor, it seems all your hope is only on Avvakum. But Avvakum did not write such words, and you should not have spoken them in a public discussion. What kind of words are these: “You have wandered, my friend.” Tell me, are these the words of a sufferer, the words of a martyr? No, these are the words of a merry company, words of a freethinker, words of an unbeliever. For you wrote this in the person of your ancestors; this was concocted by your Iona Kur-nosy. So this is false history!

Having examined your arguments, I will now present new testimonies that in need we can partake by faith, spiritually. The venerable Ephrem the Syrian in his book, Word 83, writes:

“Let there be churches of God, and the Most High God will dwell in you. For the soul having God in itself will be called a holy and pure Church, and divine mysteries are served in it.”

And how is this highest mystery of Communion accomplished in a person? Let us listen to reasonable Scripture: Nikon of the Black Mountain, Word 63, page 568:

“The body of a person is the church of God, and the heart of a person is the altar of the Holy Spirit.”

On this altar—a pure heart—God comes and performs the mystery, by faith. Allow me to present to you also the interpretation of the holy blessed Ephrem the Syrian, his Works, part 4, p. 349:

“As long as the heart abides in good, so long God abides in it, so long it serves as a source of life. The heart is God’s dwelling, therefore it needs guarding so that evil does not enter it and God does not depart from it.”

“Wonderful this is, my brethren: most marvelous, my beloved; incomprehensible to the heavenly, and inexpressible to the earthly. Inaccessible to every mind enters the heart and dwells in it. Hidden from the fiery-eyed is found in the heart. The earth does not bear His footsteps, but a pure heart bears Him in itself. Heaven is small for His span, but the heart is His dwelling. Heaven He encompasses with His handful, and one span of space is His habitation. If He spreads out—all creation will not contain Him within its bounds, but if He seeks the heart, even a small heart contains Him. A small place He chooses in man for His dwelling, and man becomes a temple of God in which God dwells. The soul is His temple, and the heart is the Holy altar on which praise, glorification, and sacrifices are offered; and the priest is the Spirit who stands and officiates there.”

This is the kind of Communion true Christians, my brethren in faith, have.

Then, dear listeners, I also cite the testimony of Saint John the Merciful, Patriarch of Alexandria. Cheti-Minei, month of November, 11th day, article 46:

“And this the blessed one taught and testified, that in no way ever should one partake of heretical communion, especially defilement. Even if your whole life, said the blessed one, and from some need or misfortune you remain without Communion, not finding a conciliar church (below). How then, having yoked oneself with right faith to the conciliar church, as the apostle said: betrothing a pure virgin to one husband, to present to God. If we defile the Orthodox and holy faith by heretical communion, will we not be partakers of the torment awaiting heretics in the age to come (below). Therefore do not, O children, touch such praying ones for the sake of bread.”

Now I have sufficiently proved, beloved listeners, all that was required of me.

A person, a true Christian, can and must hope for that Communion which the Heavenly King Himself gives by faith.

D. S. Varakin. The question was posed whether priesthood and sacrifice will remain in the Church until Christ’s second coming. Did my interlocutor say anything about this question in this speech? No, he did not. I am sure that more than half of you will agree that on the question he said nothing in this speech. He dragged in something about dogs and hares. But is our question today about dogs and hares? If you are interested in dogs and hares, take a rifle after Peter’s day and go hunting in the forest. Did you not hear that today our question is about Christ’s holy sacrifice: will it remain until the second coming? I simply do not understand your reasoning: the question is posed about the sacrifice, and he tells about dogs and hares. I think there is a difference between Christ’s sacrifice and dogs and hares, or have you become so coarsened that you no longer have a concept of the difference between Christ’s sacrifice and dogs? One must have no shame, my dearest interlocutor, to speak such baseness.

Then, again there was in his speech the question of our hierarchy. I told you, gentlemen, and addressed the dear interlocutor: appoint another two days for a discussion on our hierarchy and we will speak specifically about the hierarchy. Why do you not accept my challenge, if you wish, to speak another two days about our hierarchy? Why do you remain silent on this direct challenge? For the fourth speech I ask him to appoint a discussion specifically on the question of the hierarchy, but he seems not to hear. He needs to abuse, because he cannot answer the question, because in Scripture there is no such heretical teaching. So he must abuse. If it pleases my dear interlocutor even to discuss the bodies found there in the Caucasus, a special discussion must be appointed for this too; I agree to discuss the question of the martyrs’ bodies. However, where there is no true sacrifice, where instead of an altar they arrange something else that should not be in the church, there dogs and hares are most likely to appear. In good conscience I say that I would wish to speak on the question of relics and specifically on the question of the hierarchy for another two days. Let him accept the challenge and appoint the discussion; I am ready, but now I will not speak on this question because it does not pertain to the matter.

You read the last proof from the Cheti-Minei of John the Merciful, not to accept heretical teaching. I agree with this. But it was proved that until the second coming Christ’s sacrifice will remain in Christ’s Church. You say it is not suitable in the dominant church. But do you have it yourselves? It is not suitable there and not here, and I have none; but it will remain until the second coming. So where is it? This is why you needed dogs with hares.

Then, honorable listeners, I pointed out that my interlocutor read from the Historical Acts the words of the monk John of Vyshensky and intertwined them with the name of the patriarch. He says, here is where I read this, here is where I took this book. We see that indeed, instead of John of Vyshensky, he slipped in Patriarch Jeremiah (page 227 of the epistle of the Athonite monk John of Vyshensky). And he reads this epistle, passing off the words of John of Vyshensky as the words of Patriarch Jeremiah. “Here I,” says Vyshensky, “will now speak with you about the patriarch’s arrival as follows.” Can a patriarch speak about his own arrival where he has not yet been? What are you doing, interlocutor. This is a clear deception, to say no more. Is such defense fitting for truly Orthodox Christians? Is it fitting to lead the public into delusion? There he hides it. (Pichugin: “Please, whoever wants, if you wish, I will give it now.”) Calm down, brethren, calm down. So, honorable assembly, this is the epistle of the monk Vyshensky, but to give more weight to these words, my interlocutor needed the mask of Patriarch Jeremiah.

Then, supposedly I said that we have had disputes about faith for 250 years and cannot prove to you. And here you wished to rephrase. I said we cannot convince you; this does not mean we cannot prove. That the sacrifice will not remain until the second coming you did not read in Scripture. Then, I read the words of Protopope Avvakum, where it is said that priesthood and sacrifice will remain until the end of the age, that even if priesthood is exiled, it will not perish to the end. Our interlocutor does not believe this. But did not the Apostle Paul write the same? Protopope Avvakum said until the end of the age, Chrysostom says: until He comes, John of Damascus that it will remain until Christ’s coming, Ephrem the Syrian that it will remain until Christ’s coming. All exactly as one. Then he said: the bishop will be the Antichrist. This means that our Pichugin, uncompelled by anyone, confessed that the Antichrist is not yet here; he will be and come as a hierarch in a mitre. It is not I who needs to come to senses, but you, dear interlocutor. When my interlocutor read from the Book of Cyril that the Antichrist before his coming will destroy the sacrifice, I say these words are taken from the Explanatory Apostle, in whose interpretation it says: “before the Lord’s coming,” I say this is a scribal error or misprint. Pichugin objects: what right does he (i.e., I) have to say this? Here is what I will tell you. In the Gospel it is said:

“It will be fulfilled as spoken by the prophet Jeremiah, saying: and they took thirty pieces of silver, the price of Him who was valued, whom the children of Israel valued, and gave them for the potter’s field.”

It turns out that Jeremiah does not have this, but Zechariah does. What is this? Who could have done this? We see that Zechariah has it. This is a scribal error. But for this error no one blames anyone. Here (Explanatory Apostle) it says: “before the Lord’s coming,” but here (in Cyril): “before his own coming,” i.e., the Antichrist’s. Where is my injustice here? I told the pure truth. So here it is said as I interpreted.

Then I read Ephrem the Syrian on page 75, part 6; here it speaks of the New Testament sacrifice. “The slain kingdom Christ with His blood will confirm covenants with many.” About the Old Testament sacrifice, says Pichugin, the speech is, Christ confirmed it with His blood. What do you think, Lev Feoktistovich, did Christ suffer in the Old Testament? “Christ with His blood confirmed covenants with many.” And why, for example, did you not pay attention to the words of Ephrem the Syrian where it is said that the sacrifice will remain until Christ’s coming. Why do you not pay attention to these words. For if you say: it is not so with us, others have none, you must have it. Just as one cannot say that the human race will cease to be born, so one cannot say that the sacrifice will cease. In your society children are born; you cannot in any way make them not be born, because God said, increase and multiply; so too the sacrifice: once said, but until the second coming it has power. When the human race ceases to be born, then only can one say that the sacrifice has ceased, but as long as this exists, so long will the sacrifice exist. And this will exist until the second coming. That indeed the sacrifice will remain until the second coming, this is written in yet a third place by the same venerable Ephrem the Syrian. One I read, the other read by him does not serve him in justification. From the third place I read (part VII, pp. 250–51): “But our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and our God the Father, who loved us and gave us eternal consolation, that is, instead of temporary sacrifices given to the former (ancient generations) and passed away. But consolation instead of sacrifices He will give us in eternal service: for although the first coming abolished the former sacrifices, however our sacrifice, which is our consolation itself, will not cease even in the second coming itself, but this very coming will cause it to abound even more than now. He also gave us good hope, that our hearts may be consoled by it in sorrow from persecutors.” And what is eternal will not cease—that is, instead of the temporary sacrifice given to former generations, an eternal one will be given to us, for although the first coming abolished the former sacrifice, but this “will not cease until the second coming.” This is how Saint Ephrem the Syrian writes about the sacrifice, that even in the second coming the sacrifice which Christ established in the Church will not cease, but this very coming will cause it to abound even more than now. Now we partake of the body and blood under the forms of bread and wine, but then, when Christ Himself comes, then, as Saint Theodoret writes, there will be no need for bread and wine, because “the Body itself will appear.”

That indeed in the kingdom of the Antichrist the priesthood will not cease, we read this from another testimony, of Saint Andrew of Caesarea, chapter 12, verse 17:

Present. “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Interpretation: And he went to make war with the rest.—But when the best and chosen church teachers and those who despised the earth withdraw because of distresses into the desert, then the Antichrist, though deceived in them, will raise war against those warring for Christ in the world.”

Here, even in the time of the Antichrist’s kingdom the chosen church teachers will overcome the Antichrist and not follow him. So priesthood will be. One can see many proofs that indeed the sacrifice of Christ’s body and blood will not cease. About this also writes Saint Gregory the Dialogist: “The good Shepherd laid down His soul for His sheep so that in our mystery His body and blood might be inexhaustible, and that the sheep He redeemed might be satisfied with the nourishment of His flesh” (Homilies on the Gospel by Gregory the Dialogist, book one, p. 124).

Christ established: “do this in My remembrance,” the apostle says: “until the second coming.” But for 250 years you have neither body nor blood. Why do you live not as the holy apostles and Chrysostom write, but simply as you please. That indeed the sacrifice of Christ’s body and blood will remain until the second coming, testifies also Saint John of Damascus: “The word of God is living and active and the Lord did whatever He desired; if He said: let there be light: and there was; let there be a firmament: and there was; if by the Lord’s word the heavens were established, and by the breath of His mouth all their host; if heaven and earth, and water, and fire, and air, and all their adornment were accomplished by the Lord’s word, likewise this most glorious living creature: man; if God the Word Himself desiring became man and from the pure and undefiled blood of the holy Ever-Virgin seedlessly formed flesh for Himself; then can He not make bread His body and wine and water His blood? He said in the beginning: let the earth bring forth green grass, and even until now, whenever rain occurs, it brings forth its proper plants, driven and empowered by divine command. God said: this is My body; and: this is My blood; and: do this in My remembrance; and by His almighty command, this happens until He comes; for so (Scripture) said: until He comes” (Exact Exposition, ch. XIII, pp. 220–221). God said: “this is My body and this is My blood and do this in My remembrance” and by His almighty command, this happens until He comes. So instead of resorting to hares in the discussion, which pertain to nothing here, you should read where the holy fathers wrote that the sacrifice will not remain until the second coming. No, you did not even think to answer; we knew in advance that we would not receive this answer from you. So how can one call that society which does not follow Scripture? Can one call it Christ’s Church? No, simply a crowd of people led by blind guides, like my interlocutor.

The same about the eternity of the sacrifice writes blessed Simeon of Thessalonica (in the Russian translation of his works, p. 182): “Behold, I am with you all days until the end of the age; for He said this not as if after this He would not always be with us, as when praying to the Father He says: Father, those You gave Me, I desire that where I am they also may be with Me, that they may see My glory, and before the prayer: and the glory You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one as We are one, and I in them and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, but until the end of the age He will be through His mysteries, and He said this also because He is not now seen, having ascended bodily, until He comes.” This is how Christ will be with us until the end of the age—through His mysteries. If you have none of this, Christ is not with you, and if He is not with you, you are not Christians, and if you are not Christians, you are anti-Christians. This is the conclusion—sound, logical conclusion—because Christ has communion with us in the mysteries. Saint Chrysostom in the fifth week of Lent writes the following about those who do not partake (Book “Chrysostom”, fifth week of Lent, p. 129 reverse):

“If anyone lives purely in repentance but does not receive Christ’s mysteries, he cannot be saved.”

One must think about this. By my duties and by my work, which I do by calling, I have had to be in the Pomor lands, among the priestless. When I asked them: tell me please, when you read the above words of Chrysostom in the fifth week of Lent, what do you think at that time? They told me: “We do not read them.” And why? “So as not to tempt the people. For the people will hear and revolt. We take and skip this place.” Here is an example of this. In the epistle to the Corinthians the apostle writes: “The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” So these words for those being saved, who believe all Scripture, are the power of God. And for those who do not believe this Scripture and do not live so, it is foolishness for them. Therefore they skip these words. This is the judgment lying on those who do not partake of Christ’s Body and Blood. This Scripture about the eternity of the sacrifice serves them only as poverty, reproach, and foolishness, but for the saved it serves as the power of God, on which alone we can rely, on which we hope. By works we cannot be justified, but can only hope to repent of our sins and by receiving the Communion of Christ’s Body and Blood obtain eternal life.

That indeed the sacrifice will remain until the second coming, further testimonies are given from the Great Collection (page 559):

“Just as that voice saying ‘increase and multiply and fill the earth’ was spoken once, but every year the deed occurs, giving power to our nature for procreation. So this voice was spoken once, but always (ever) on the tables in the churches from that day and until His coming makes the perfect sacrifice.”

See, honorable listeners, how many proofs, almost letter for letter identical. All Scripture says one and the same. There are no disagreements about the sacrifice. Disagreements are only in the own language of my interlocutor. If you have no sacrifice, it means either Christ has come, or since this is not so, it means you are deceived. The same is written in the Book of Cyril (page 351):

“But at every time, and every hour, every year, even until the end of the world, He left His most pure body and life-giving divine blood, shed for the world for the remission of sins, for His faithful to eat, uniting and joining them to His divine and incorruptible nature. As Chrysostom also recalling this writes thus: for just as after the creation of all things the Lord’s word abounds, as He said: increase and multiply and fill the earth. Which spoken once occurs in deed every year, helping our nature to childbearing; so the word of the Lord God and our Savior Jesus Christ, proclaiming all creation from corruption to resurrection. Especially man possessing all these, spoken once: take and eat and drink of it all, never fails, helping His faithful to union and joining to the divine nature and inheritance of the heavenly kingdom.”

Here more than 20 testimonies have been read by me in proof that sacrifice and priesthood will remain until the second coming, because priesthood and sacrifice are together; one cannot be without the other. So, my interlocutor, take at least one of these proofs in hand. Where is the truth here? Where is the sincerely expressed desire by him to defend his supposed brethren as truly Orthodox Christians? Where is this desire? This desire, these tears of yours, are mere pretense, only pretense. Here is such a cloud of witnesses in defense of Christ’s saving sacrifice, established by Him at the Mystical Supper in the presence of His disciples.

Concluding my speech with this, I turn again to my dear interlocutor: let him go the straight path, let him read in Holy Scripture where it is said that sacrifice and priesthood will not remain until the second coming. If he mentions our priesthood once more, or another priesthood, or generally touches questions that do not pertain to this discussion, I will again remind him of the challenge. I wish to conduct with him a two-day discussion on the question of our hierarchy and on the question of relics. I ask you to accept my challenge and answer the question on the basis of Holy Scripture: where is it written that the sacrifice will not remain until Christ’s second coming?

L. F. Pichugin. I ask for your attention, dear listeners! My interlocutor has fallen into irritation. He himself spoke nonsense and is offended himself. I presented such a cloud of testimonies that my interlocutor cannot fly above this cloud. This cloud soaring in the air is the testimonies of holy men. I advise you, gentlemen priestly ones, to look around, enter into yourselves and ask: where now is this sacrifice actually offered in the Orthodox spirit? In Rome you do not recognize, in the East and Arabia you do not recognize, in Uniates what is done you reject, in Gregorian Armenians you do not recognize, in the Armenian common-heretical church also you do not recognize, finally you do not recognize in the Greco-Russian church. Where is the true sacrifice? For you factually sum it up yourselves that only with you is the sacrifice, but about your sacrifice, gentlemen, you must speak cautiously, because it is foreign with you, not your own, not Christ’s, but heretical and Antichrist’s, bought for money, assembled by human inventions, not by the living word of the Gospel. You ask, let Lev Feoktistovich show me where in Scripture it is written about the final desolation or cessation of the sacrifice? To this I can say to my interlocutor with the words of the Gospel. “Tell us, blind man, ask the proud Pharisees, who healed you? Who opened your eyes?” The healed one answers: “I have told you several times that Jesus healed me, or do you not hear?” These sacred words are precisely applicable to my interlocutor. I have testified to you several times from the Book of Cyril that “the Antichrist before his coming will do what is everywhere to destroy the true sacrifice and set the abomination of desolation in the holy place,” that is, impious heresies.

Then, I brought you a series of other testimonies and, finally, here is the following conclusion of Saint Hippolytus, Pope of Rome, in the Great Collection, Meatfare week, third word: “The sun and moon will weep at that time,” he says.

But the sun naturally cannot weep, nor can the moon shed tears. This must be understood spiritually.

“Then the wild animals with the birds will weep, the mountains and hills will weep, and the field trees, for the sake of the human race, because all have turned away from God and believed the deceiver.”

And it is said that this will be in the days of the Antichrist. So if understood literally, as you do, one must literally account for how birds and beasts will weep? How will mountains, hills, and trees weep? For in essence this cannot be. Well, so here it speaks not of birds and beasts, but of people similar to them.

Then: “Having received the mark of the foul God-fighter instead of the life-giving Cross of the Savior.”

Who among us has received this number 666?

“Then God’s churches will also weep with great weeping, because neither offering nor incense is performed, nor is there God-pleasing service. For the sacred churches will be like vegetable storehouses, and the honorable body and blood of Christ will not appear in those days.”

So, brethren, understand that in these days there will be no body and blood of Christ, for they will be destroyed by the Antichrist, the enemy of the human race—the devil.

But my interlocutor as if intentionally pointed out to me that even in the time of the Antichrist there will be helpers of the Church: pastors and excellent church teachers. This he read from chapter 12 of the Apocalypse, interpretation of Andrew of Caesarea, and adding his own words said: “that even in the time of the Antichrist there will be priests and bishops.” But is this really so? Let us see: Apocalypse, chapter 12, says thus:

“And the dragon persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.”

The woman is Christ’s Church, desiring to give birth through holy baptism by faith of the baptized. The dragon is the devil:

“He spews water like a river after the woman.”

This is heretical teaching, by which he wanted to drown the child of the woman—that is, destroy it in the muddy water of heretical teaching.

“And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon spewed from his mouth. And the dragon went to make war with the rest; Excellent and chosen church teachers, it says.”

Thus it is written in the explanatory Apocalypse that in the time of the Antichrist there will truly be the best church teachers. And therefore my interlocutor says: “that even in the time of the Antichrist there will be bishops and priests.” In this place my interlocutor is gravely mistaken: these excellent church teachers were, but will not be. This I say on the basis of the Great Collection, page 877 reverse and in the margin. Apocalypse, chapter 12, where it is written:

“This war I think John the Theologian shows in the revelation, that the dragon persecuted the woman desiring to give birth to lawful children, that is, the church of the new covenant, against which the dragon spewed water, that is, those heretics. Which God seeing not a little shaken and afflicted by him, raised up for her strong and vigilant pastors.”

“He raised up for her strong and vigilant pastors, of whom I say the first and most wise and great Dionysius the Areopagite, Justin, and Irenaeus, and the divine Hippolytus, and the wonderful and excellent among philosophers Cyprian. And the strong and invincible warrior for the Holy Trinity Athanasius the Great. The firm and unshakable pillars of Orthodoxy Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, and John Chrysostom, who truly helped the church, swallowing heretical teaching like the earth water with right teachings, which even now are set before the faithful to drive away such abomination.”

See, dear listeners, my words are confirmed by Scripture. The dragon persecuted the woman—that is, the Antichrist the holy Church. He spewed water after the woman—that is, the teaching of heretics. “He raised up for her strong fighters”—already, not will raise in the future. He raised Dionysius the Areopagite, Justin the Philosopher, Irenaeus the most holy, Hippolytus, the divine Cyprian, Athanasius the Great, the firm and unshakable pillars of Orthodoxy: Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, John Chrysostom. These are the true helpers of the holy Church. And since they are no longer in life, they reign with Christ, but we still suffer in this life and see with our eyes the flood-like false teaching, so how can we repel the foul wiles of the deceiver Antichrist?

Whoever reads impartially and reasons soundly Scripture will be a champion of truth and follower of those great pillars. This is the meaning of the said Scripture. So, my dearest interlocutor, you should read the original books of the holy fathers, not those little books and small brochures, but take the holy books and read them diligently. Then you noted to me: “one must have shame to speak such baseness about hares and dogs.” Forgive me, for I did not speak this in my own words; I read the letter of your lord Anastasius. You yourself call this shame and reproach, and do not call me a blind guide and my brethren in faith.

I will answer this too not in my own words, but in the words of one holy man. Saint Epiphanius of Cyprus (part 2, p. 235) says this to people who attribute their absurdities to others: “Be ashamed, second Babylon and new Sodomite mixture. How long will you mix tongues? How long will you dare against those whom you harm not at all? You seek to do violence to angelic powers, casting out words of truth from the church and saying to holy Lot: bring out the men (Gen. 19:5). But what you undertake, you undertake against yourself. For you will not cast out words of truth, but strike yourself with blindness (Gen. 19:11). And you walk in dark night, groping for the door and not finding it, until the sun rises, and you see the day of judgment, when fire (Gen. 19:23, 24) will overtake you for lying words.”

“Be ashamed,” says the holy father, “second Babylon.” So, to whom does this rebuke apply if not to you? Babylon means mixture.

Where is the first Babylon? I will answer in your words. There where you took your priesthood. And who is the second Babylon? It is you.

I will now speak about that Communion you mentioned. Saint Theodore the Studite on this occasion says, his letter, part 1, p. 325: “For Communion from a heretic or one openly condemned by life separates from God and delivers to the devil.” So we avoid this devilish Communion.

Part two of the same book of the venerable Theodore the Studite, p. 81:

“Communion with heretics is not common bread, but poison, damaging not the body but blackening and darkening the soul.” Consequently, whoever partakes with heretics and false priests has his soul poisoned with spiritual poison.

Further I read, part two, p. 219: “For a temple defiled by heretics is not a holy and God’s temple, but an ordinary house, as Basil the Great says, since the angel formerly present in each church has departed from it for impiety. Therefore the sacrifice performed in it is not accepted by God. Listen how he himself says: the sinner sacrificing a calf to Me is like one killing a dog” (Isa. 66:3).

This is what heretical Communion is like. We avoid and abhor such Communion. But Christ’s Communion in the present last time there is none, for false priests cannot arrange it.

Further I read, part two of the same venerable Theodore the Studite, p. 339: “What is this forced participation, under threat of bodily unpleasantness in case of refusal, to participate in heterodox bread. The body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ—O most Christian thought!—is a voluntary sacrifice.”

Thus, let those who forcibly draw us to communion with them against our will know that they act in a pagan way. “Offering not Christ’s body voluntarily sacrificed, but on the contrary some kind of idol-sacrificed, similar to involuntarily offered sacrifices to demons.”

Then I will also cite a testimony. Works of blessed Jerome, part 6, p. 78: “The church of heretics, which calls to itself the senseless in mind, so that deceived by it he accepts thievish breads.” What is this thievish bread? Heretics, stealing the Orthodox form of performance, perform mysteries with this form and deceive the senseless in mind—that is, simpletons. These are not my words, but the words of holy men. And not only did they accept thievish bread, but thievish water. And what does thievish water mean? False heretical baptism, as it is said: “Thievish water—that is, false mystery and foul baptism.” This is what we avoid.

Further I testify. In part 6 of the Works of blessed Jerome, on p. 254, it is written: “He commands then to the Jewish people and now to us, seemingly in the church, not to rely on the splendor of buildings, on gilded ceilings and marble-clad walls, and not to say: temple of the Lord, temple of the Lord, temple of the Lord. For the temple of the Lord is that in which true faith dwells, holy life, and the assembly of all virtues.”

Here only temples can be temples of the Lord, but Christ the Savior about such said in the Gospel of Luke, Reading 72:

“Then you will begin to say: we ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.”

This will be said at Christ’s Judgment by those who partook of false mysteries. And Christ answers them:

“I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.”

This is what bitter answer of the Savior to you. And after this He said:

“There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Thus, temples are recognized not by Communion, but by faith pure from heresies and virtuous life.

And if many people like you say that they partook, ate the body and drank the blood of Christ, Christ will say to such: “Depart from Me, I do not know you.”

Then another testimony. Work of blessed Jerome, part II, p. 159: “Thus all deceived by heretics serve as food for demons.” Whoever partakes with heretics becomes not a temple of God, but food for demons. P. 165: “For heretics also imitate church meekness, but their offering appears not as service to God, but as food to demons.”

So, although false priests and bishops perform similar rites in the service of the sacrifice, their offering—that is, Communion—appears not as service to God, but as food to demons. Strict words, dear listeners, but not my words, but the words of holy men. This is where heretics’ Communion leads—to food for demons, but Orthodox Communion nowhere now exists. Works of blessed Jerome, part 12, p. 88: “For all that was done afterward in the temple was not sacrifice to God, but service to the devil.”

Further I read on p. 238: “No one doubts that the hearts of heretics are kindled by the devil’s fire,” so that breads—that is, Communion—are baked in them for the Antichrist. I will make a comparison. The heart of a true Christian is God’s altar, but the heart of a heretic is an oven in which breads are baked for the Antichrist.

Further testimony of the same part of blessed Jerome, p. 265: “The sacrifices of heretics are bread of sorrow and tears, because all that they do will turn to weeping (below). By bread of sorrow we can call those pernicious words in which they express impiety against the Lord. This bread does not enter God’s house, because the assemblies of heretics are called not God’s house, but dens of robbers.” And everyone who eats partakes with these people and is defiled. These are blind guides, false teachers who lead the blind into the pit. The Master Christ said: “Woe to you, blind guides, you yourselves do not enter the Kingdom of God and do not allow those wishing to enter. You, He says, are like whitewashed tombs.” And who are these beautiful outward tombs? These are false bishops. Beautiful in appearance, but dead inside, they appear like children’s dolls. And what does the content of the tombs mean, dear listeners? Graceless priests. All that they do is done for pleasure, to deceive the people, to devour widows’ houses, to make more money. By bread of sorrow, says blessed Jerome, we can call those pernicious words in which impiety against the Lord is expressed. This bread does not enter God’s house, because the church of heretics is called not God’s house, but a den of robbers.

You say, interlocutor, we have no church. Untruth, with us precisely only the undefiled faith and right Church is preserved: we have neither heretical priesthood nor heretical baptism. On the contrary, look at yourselves. The holy father says that the assembly of heretics is not Christ’s Church, but “a den of robbers,” and this is factually true.

Further the same blessed Jerome says, in part 13, p. 154: “All this we can refer also to heretics: their altar is broken, and all dedications and sacrilegious mysteries are shaken: they had covetousness in their heads and are like a partridge which by cry gathers those it did not hatch, and acquires riches by unrighteousness (Jer. ch. 17).”

They had covetousness—that is, they arranged their priesthood for money, and most of all they had covetousness in their heads.

So this is not a mother Church, but a stepmother of demonic origin, which did not bear children by the Holy Spirit in baptism, but by the voice of a native mother gathers the inattentive for deception and boasts of them. You say we have flock and pastors. But by the words of the holy father you are convicted “that you acquire riches by unrighteousness.” Now judge for yourselves who you are.

Further I read, p. 191 of the same part: “For as you rejoiced at their slaughter and arranged feasts and on My holy mountain”—that is, in your madness, when you were carried away by the pleasures of the spiritual wealth you acquired—that is, priesthood—and arranged feasts—that is, offered sacrifices on the holy mountain in the church—“you drank not My cup, but the devil’s cup.” When you rejoiced at your find, you did not drink Christ’s cup when you partook, but partook of the devil’s cup. Thus said the holy father. Here is what bitter lesson to these people who do not heed God’s words and blaspheme them. Christ the Savior said:

“Woe to you who laugh now, for you will weep and wail and there will be none to comfort them.”

Finally, dear listeners, from whom, do you think, did the church of the priestly ones originate? Their church originated not from Christ successively, but from the heretic Ambrose, and they themselves called it Belokrinitsa, not apostolic or Christ’s. Having received beginning from a mortal man and heretic, what kind of church is it? Blessed Jerome about such in his Work, part 4, p. 92, said: “If you hear somewhere about such who, considering themselves Christ’s, accepted a name not from the Lord Jesus Christ, but from someone else (below), know that it is not Christ’s Church, but the synagogue of the Antichrist.” For one must firmly hold to that Church which was founded by the apostles, not the new Belokrinitsa one.

Thus, now the totals are summed up. I will read to you another testimony from the book of Baronius, epistle of the sacred martyr Cyprian, page 165 reverse, about Communion: “You have, he says, beloved brethren, no vanity in reverence and faith, that there in this time God’s priests cannot perform offerings and sacrifices: offer as sacrifice a broken spirit, a contrite and humble heart, God will not despise. This sacrifice offer to God continually, day and night, and you yourselves are a living and holy sacrifice, as the apostle says, in your bodies.”

If you do not have priests and cannot perform the sacrifice, do not grieve over this.

Here, finally, is the holy teaching of the Church: where there are no priests, where there is no service, there you can yourselves offer, by faith, the sacrifice of your spirit and heart. Here is what Zachariah Kopystensky says about this (his book On the One Truth, page 152 reverse): “I know the three youths spoke. And there is in that hour neither prince, nor prophet, nor leader, nor whole burnt offering, nor sacrifice, nor offering, nor incense, nor place to offer (altar) before You, and find mercy, but with a contrite soul and humble spirit may we be accepted. As You see Yourself in that hour to have both prophet and place, and would offer to God; or wherever it could not be, a contrite soul hoping in God’s mercy, and a humble spirit offered (partook). And believing in this way they would be accepted by God as the foremost offering. Likewise the right-believing, and in the hour (of need) mentioned, then they will understand about their acceptance by God: and prophet—that is, priest; place—that is, Church. Sacrifice—that is, most holy mysteries (Communion), where there is none, as those three youths offered to God a contrite soul, a humble spirit. Do not be troubled, it is better and safer (for you) to fall thus into God’s hands, as the reigning prophet David says: then I will fall into the Lord’s hands, for I know His mercies are many and swift, but into human hands then I will not fall (below). To die with right faith, yes. So I know we fall into God’s hands and mercy and goodness, rather than into human hands—that is, impious and unOrthodox. Through this perdition and loss of salvation, not being faithful to the end. Be (be) carefree in the final step of your life, preserve yourself, remember that thief on the cross, remember the first-martyr Stephen and innumerable other martyrs, exiles and those exiled in deserts, who ended their life without Communion, preserving faith in their heads above all. For remembering I know: be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life; and be (be) more confident about baptism and confession and Communion—Eucharist, as it is written, for I know that you will do this not out of contempt or disdain, but because of persecution and through harms from visible tormentors, and striving to preserve and keep the right faith unbroken, I say again do not lament (do not grieve), but firmly assure this.”

D. S. Varakin. I ask for your attention. Only for half an hour I ask your precious attention. Here we have heard the last speech with the proofs of our interlocutor. In this speech he seems to have brought everything he had at hand to somehow defile that priesthood which has its succession from Christ through pious patriarchs, bishops, and priests and finally through Metropolitan Ambrose. Arming himself with Scripture against heretics, he does not inflict any defeat on us, because is it not known to anyone that we, truly Orthodox Christians, have no heresy and what was accepted in the holy universal Church from heretics, we accepted too. If we did this badly, let him first pour this poison on the holy Church. Then only will this poison be appropriately poured by him if he dares to pour it on the ecumenical councils. No matter how bold my interlocutor is, he will not do this. So let him stop pouring the poison of malice on what was also done by the holy Church. With his last proof he wanted to prove that the liturgy is not needed, that one can partake without sacrifice, with contrition of spirit, and sacrifice is prayer, and referred that this was said by Saint Cyprian. Reading the Chronicle of Baronius, he says: these are Cyprian’s words. If it were known to you, dear interlocutor, that this is in Cyprian’s book, you would have read it in Cyprian’s book. You have it at hand. And why did you not read it in it? Because Cyprian does not have this. And here too you told untruth. You did not finish reading the place that clarifies the main thought. And this is always his practice: he reads and does not finish. Like some epidemic, he cannot break the habit of reading and not finishing, necessarily cutting off. In Baronius he read a clear self-rebuke. Further is written what he left out.

“This sacrifice offer to God continually day and night, and you yourselves are a living and holy sacrifice (as the apostle says) in your bodies. Here he clearly distinguishes the external sacrifice, which they could not perform in prison—that is, the liturgy—from the internal, which they could offer with one heart. Lest the heretic say that the Church of Christ has no external sacrifice, which is contrary to truth and all antiquity” (Baronius, p. 165 reverse).

Well, if in prison, he says, a person is not given freedom, can he partake of Christ’s body and blood when neither priest is allowed nor holy gifts are brought? No, he says, he cannot. Then, he says, by force of this necessity, let him partake by prayer. For he is not released from this prison. What further?

“Lest heretics say that the Church of Christ has no external sacrifice.”

It is not Saint Cyprian who says that the Church of Christ now has no sacrifice, but lest heretics say this. This is contrary to all antiquity. He did not finish this. Well, what kind of interlocutor is this. This place strikes him, but he reads it against us. Here the heretic said that Christ’s Church has no external sacrifice, and he says this. This is what you have come to, L. F. Your head is simply spinning. You no longer know what you are reading.

It was read from Jerome parts 6 and 2, 13 and 17. And what is read here, that one must not have communion with heretics, must not have mixture, must turn away from heretics. But who disputes this with you? If you wish, I will read you not 5 proofs, but 205, that one must not have communion with heretics. But was the discussion about this? The discussion was about the following: will Christ’s sacrifice and priesthood remain until the second coming? The question was posed by me. So know this, dearest interlocutor, and you, Pomortsy, remember that your interlocutor did not answer the question from Scripture and leaves without an answer, meaning he has nothing to justify himself with. But was our question about whether to have communion with heretics? There is no discussion about this at all.

Here he read from the fourth part of Jerome: “whoever,” he says, “is not from Christ, that,” he says, “is not Christ’s Church, but the synagogue of the Antichrist.” But this place, one can say, has two ends. According to him, we originated from the time of Metropolitan Ambrose. Let us stop at this for now. But as history says, they have their origin from Pomorye. So he says: “we Old Believers-Pomortsy earlier than them.” But they appeared from the time of the Denisov brothers. Consequently, you are not from the time of Christ, but from the time of the Denisov brothers; so you too are the synagogue of the Antichrist? This is also proved by the fact that in your temples instead of altars and thrones sideboards are set. Also, gentlemen, I draw your attention to this: the interlocutor condemned those persons in our society who have successive ordination descending from pious patriarchs and called our bishops, priests, and deacons by various shameful names. What cunning Mr. Pichugin has reached in abuse; it seems he has achieved virtuosity in this. But we will draw your attention to what he did at the council recently, how they appointed their mentors. Our bishops and priests received ordination. But with them they were only establishing conciliarly: how to count our fathers—spiritual persons or the same simple as we? It turned out that for 250 years they did not know who their mentors were? Does, they say, our mentor have succession? Yes, for 250 years they did not know who their mentors were. Here is this brochure—“List of subjects of conciliar discussion”—and it poses this question. Of course, we could read it in the big book, but since it is not written in the big book, by necessity one has to read from the small one. Thus, one must recognize their pastors not as simple laymen. But who are they? I do not know—who. Not priests, not deacons, not bishops, yet not laymen. Something in between. John the Theologian said about such: “I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot; I will spit you out.”

Then were read the words of Hippolytus, Pope of Rome: “God’s Church will weep… there will be neither incense nor sacrifice.” I was recently in their temple. They have a large censer. But in the time of the Antichrist there is no incense. Where did you get it from? He, according to Hippolytus, destroyed even incense. So where did you get this censer? The Antichrist destroyed the sacrifice, but not the censer. Then they perform services: molebens, vespers, matins, panikhidas, hours, sing, read Scripture. Gentlemen, pay attention: in the 20th century, in Moscow, in a large auditorium, we read such a heap of Scriptures, but in the times of the Antichrist Scripture will not be heard, it will be impossible to read. Well, who can agree with such an absurd conclusion of my interlocutor that now is the kingdom of the last Antichrist. Then he said that “temples will be like vegetable storehouses.” But in their temples there are neither cucumbers nor potatoes, but in the place of the altar a council room, but no vegetables there. So be consistent in what you read: if you want to compare present life with Scripture, compare from beginning to end. But you say about the sacrifice that there is none, but singing, reading, and censer you have. So here is something else. This is not Christ’s Church, but what blessed Jerome said: “If you hear somewhere about such who, considering themselves Christ’s, accepted a name not from the Lord Jesus Christ but from someone else, as for example about Marcionites, Valentinians, Montanists or Campites, know that it is not Christ’s Church but the synagogue of the Antichrist” (part 4, p. 92). In the Russian translation of the same Hippolytus, Pope of Rome, it says: “Public worship will cease, psalm singing will fall silent, the reading of Scriptures will not resound” (Works of Hippolytus, issue II, p. 78). Even psalms will not be allowed to be sung. However, they read kathismas and read psalms. Here they even read, but there is no sacrifice. Can one recognize such a conclusion as correct that at present the last Antichrist reigns? I will say one can, but conditionally, that the kingdom of the Antichrist is with them, because the sacrifice with them is destroyed, the Antichrist destroyed it, destroyed everything, but could not manage to destroy the censer. In conclusion of the speech I will read to you that proof which I read from the Book of Cyril, since I have no right to bring new proofs.

“Note the abomination of desolation, for heretics have no altars, and when they remain in Christian churches, they destroy and cast out from the altar the physiasthirion—that is, the altar.”

“They do not slaughter the living bread sacrifice. And the bread of the innocent Lamb, the most pure body, and the wine of the precious blood of Christ, they do not offer in sacrifice.”

Those temples which had altars, they chopped up and arranged something improper.

“Only in the altar in the place of sanctification they set up an abomination of desolation like a corpse.”

This, he says, heretics do, but they have none, so they are heretics; in the altar, in the holy place, the abomination of desolation like a corpse is set. This they did. So say: the abomination of desolation is with you. Then, when I read Andrew of Caesarea the following: “those in charge of the Church and church pastors even in the time of the coming of the last Antichrist will overcome him,” my interlocutor takes the Collection and says they overcame, not will overcome. Athanasius the Great and other saints—they overcame. Does my interlocutor not know that Andrew of Caesarea lived in the 12th century, 750 years after Athanasius the Great, but he says as if this is spoken about Athanasius the Great, but Andrew of Caesarea lived in the 12th century and speaks of future time. See how many inconsistencies, misinterpretations, how much confusion he has in Scripture and interpretations. For when the apostles asked the Lord about the destruction of the Jerusalem temple, He predicted the future. Where is the truth here? Here is only your sophism; you simply mix proofs, confuse. I will repeat another proof of blessed Theodoret: “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. Interp. For after His coming there will no longer be need for that which signifies the body, because the Body itself will appear. Therefore the apostle said until He comes.” When Christ Himself comes, then, he says, we will have no need for this, but the sacrifice will remain until the second coming. Then I will repeat another proof of Cyril of Jerusalem (p. 78 reverse of the Book of Cyril), where it is said that this sacrifice will be in the Christian Church:

“And this is the sacrifice which the Christian Church chosen from the nations offers to the Lord God throughout the whole world, and until the end of the age will offer the body and blood of the Lord God and our Savior Jesus Christ, in memory of His death, and this prophecy is truly for assurance, since it is strong and invincible” (78 reverse).

Thus, I had to repeat the proof only because I have no right to bring new proofs. You see, brethren, that sacrifice and priesthood, according to Scripture, will remain until the second coming. Therefore my interlocutor was obliged to point it out with himself, because he recognizes only himself as Christ’s Church, but he has no sacrifice—meaning he has no Christ’s church. Since Christ did not establish and did not indicate a church without mysteries, this church is not Christ’s, but, as blessed Jerome says, the synagogue of the Antichrist. About our hierarchy he touched many times. But this does not pertain to the question. I already challenged and said that if desired, I agree to discuss this question too. Thus, concluding my speech, I bring to all of you my deep gratitude, both to our brethren of the same faith and to the Old Believer Pomortsy brethren, and I ask you to imprint on the tablets of your hearts Holy Scripture, that the sacrifice will remain until Christ’s second coming.

L. F. Pichugin. Most honorable listeners! Our discussion is ending. In this short speech I will make a brief review of all that was said.

The first discussion with us was about the Belokrinitsa priesthood. The Belokrinitsa priesthood turned out to be non-successive priesthood from the living source of the Savior Christ and the holy apostles, but it originated, in the words of the priestly ones themselves, from the harlot Babylon, where demons live and unclean spirits dwell, and was born into God’s world only in 1846.

The second discussion was about the baptism of heretics coming to the Church. I proved with full clarity that the holy Church never and nowhere accepted heretics with their baptism, but either chrismated or baptized anew, counting heretics’ baptism as nothing.

In the third discussion I also proved with clarity that, according to the prescribed prophetic, Gospel, apostolic, and holy fatherly Scripture, the Antichrist has come and reigns.

Finally, in this present fourth last discussion about the New Testament sacrifice of the Communion of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, I also proved that by God’s permission and according to the high-proclaiming writing of the prophet Daniel and the word of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ—this great mystery—alas, worthy of tears—has been corrupted by the Antichrist and his servants the heretics and false priests.

I pointed to the writing of the prophet Daniel and the words of Jesus Christ saying:

“Then in the holy place the abomination of desolation will stand.”

When the Roman kingdom falls and is divided into 10 parts. But the Roman kingdom was divided long ago into 10 monarchies, and the false lamb, according to chapter 13 of the Apocalypse, has already appeared on earth under the name of Christ, bearing false symbols, two horns like the true Lamb, and deceived the sacred world.

The false lamb is a false bishop pretending to be the true Lamb.

The final enthronement of the Antichrist, the last appearance, according to chapter 13 of the Apocalypse, and his actions are the number 666. This number, as a fateful event of the times, found its indicated place (Book on Faith, ch. 30): the year 1666. The fact has occurred.

There is no longer holy Communion; if it exists anywhere, it is false—because it is performed by false builders.

Thus, by force of compelled circumstances, we Old Believers priestless Pomortsy with great sorrow remain without priesthood and visible Communion for a very valid reason, for the pastors have retreated from Christ’s faith and gone astray, offering false instead of true sacrifice.

I am happy and consider it a high honor that at the present time I defend my brethren in faith and bring special thanks to the Lord God that He granted me strength to fight for the holy faith in this field these four days.

Forgive me, brethren, if I offended anyone; but to offend intentionally, believe me, I wished no one. In struggle there are extremes.

I bring thanksgiving and praise to the Holy Trinity, Father and Son and Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, Amen!

The Chairman declares the session closed.